Ak-hollowpoints

[Taylor Jarrell]

Will an ak (7.62x39) with hollow points or soft nose perform comparible with fmj 5.56 and it's fragmentation, while providing more mass? Just currious as I had a discussion over the classic where does each caliber excel discussion yesterday. Also if you have any knowledge with SP or jhp 5.56 that would be a good variable to throw in.

PLEASE NO ARGUMENTS OVER ONE BEING SUPERIOR 24/7

 

[GooseGestapo]

It depends on the “hollow point” in question.

Most of the factory 7.62x39 factory ammo w/hollow points aren’t really intended to expand. They will behave much like FMJ on soft tissue.

A “Varmint” type Hollow Point like the Speer 125gr TNT when loaded to 2,200-2,400fps will expand quickly and give wounding characterics like a 5.56x45 (.223Rem).
The closest you will likely get to explosive expansion with a 7.62x39 is the Hornady 110gr Vmax. They also make a version called the Zmax with a funky green plastic tip instead of red.

Even my 8moa M1 Carbine out shoots the two AK’s I’ve fired, so it’s a moot point.
When I think AK, I think “spray and pray”.
My .300BO AR upper is <1moa with either of the aforementioned bullets. But I’ve not had a deer walk in front of it. I did have good results from the Hornady 123gr .311 SPT from an SKS. But it was ~3moa.

 

[illinoisburt]

7.62x39 has a fairly limited commercially/surplus loaded bullet selection. It has relatively low velocity and shorter/stubby bullets due to lower weights for caliber (generally 122-125 and 150-154 grain). Certainly there are others including nice bolt action rifles and even ARs, however by far the majority of guns chambered in the round here in the US are SKS or AK variants.

Flipping through most any ammunition website will show a bunch of foreign made steel cased rounds loaded with either FMJ, hollow point, or soft point bullets. A lot of anecdotal evidence and various tests have found the overwhelming majority of the hollow and soft pointed rounds have thick jackets which do not expand reliably at their standard velocities. Sometimes the soft points expand beautifully, other time the exposed lead tip flattens and the bullet get very deep straight line penetration with very little upset.

The hollow points usually mimic the FMJ in performance. Penetrate a short distance, yaw, flatten a bit, and continue penetration facing backwards. The bullets are usually too stout and slow to break up and fragment as we commonly see with high velocity FMJ from 223/556.

Of the steel cased foreign fodder, there is an exception. ̶M̶8̶3̶ 8M3 hollow point have shown good fragmentation. Tula has a loading claimed to be the same as Ulyanovsk originals and may be a reliable fragmentation round.

There are a bunch of good domestic manufactured rounds available for hunting, but most are expanding soft point rather than fragmenting.

If you venture into hand loading, there are fairly soft 30 caliber pistol bullets which would be likely to unpeel at 762x39 speed.

*Edit : 8M3 hollow points, my phone keeps trying to spell check me.

 

[someguy2800]

If you go on YouTube and search there are lots of videos gel testing 7.62 steel jacketed hp ammo. Most of it just kind of mangles up the tip and yaws.

If you really want terminal effect just ask anybody who has hunted coyotes with a 223. FMJ’s are what you shoot when you don’t want to mess up the fir. If you want to kill them there and now you shoot a Vmax varmint bullet. Remember the military uses fmj because they have to. You don’t have to.

 

[someguy2800]

 

[GooseGestapo]

You also requested info on soft point and hollow point from .223/5.56.

I didn’t address this as it is such a broad subject due to various bullet construction and weights.
Not all .223/5.56 FMJ will fragment. Muzzle velocity (barrel length dependent) and impact velocity (distance) greatly affects this as does particular bullet construction.

With bullets varying from 35-90gr, some with thick jackets, some with thin, some in between, you have to take them on an individual basis. Generally a thin fast bullet will give explosive performance (ie: TNT, BLITZ, Vmax, etc), a heavier thicker bullet will exhibit controlled expansion and deeper penetration such as the Sierra 63 and 65gr Soft Points or Speer 70gr soft point.

In broad terms, the .223 is a more versatile cartridge. Even the Soviets agreed in 1974 when they adopted the 5.45x39 as their new standard in the AK74.

 

[SamT1]

I used to hunt pigs with AK’s and SKS. The lighter Sierra pro hunter bullets we’re good performers without breaking the bank.

Like mentioned the wolf soft and hollow points are bad. Better killing than fmj, but not a real hunting bullet.

I’ve also done OK with .308 bullets in AK rifles, so you may get ok performance from some of the blackout bullets like .308 125gr prohunter or sst. The Z-max 123 grains would work good for thin skinned game. Maybe slow enough to work OK on deer, you’d have to try or talk to someone who has. They explode when they hit a big boar’s skin and knock a baseball size chunk from the entrance and don’t go far.

 

[adcoch1]

Russian ammo can be a crap shoot sometimes, I've had amazing performance from tula 154 gr sp ammo at times. Also had a batch that were so thick skinned they wouldn't expand. The best foreign ammo I've used in x39 is the sellior and bellot hp 122 grn. Perfect petal found on opposite side of hide on deer through the boiler room. The bullet looked like a nosler ad. But even with the less than stellar expansion from crappy Russian ammo, I prefer the larger caliber for bigger game. That said, 223 has WAY more versatility available in bullets from prairie dogs to legit deer and hog bullets. Fmj in either caliber are lackluster for most hunting applications, except at very close range. My $0.02. Btw I use an SKS and a cz 527 bolt gun, both make ak rifles look VERY inaccurate.