All around self defense gun

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The Dixie Diarist

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I am looking for a double action revolver for my wife that can take hot .45LC loads. I am also looking hard at the Taurus Judge series pistols and I was wondering if anyone knows how hot I can safely load ammo for it? I would like something that I could load for bear and still use for personal defense. Can the Judge series pistols do that?

Another related question: Can 3-inch mag .410's in 00 stop bear sized aggressive animals (assuming shot placement, etc.), or would I be better off loading a really hot LC with a 300gr SWC - say in the ball park of 1500-1700fps - in such a gun?
 
Im one of those who thinks the Judge just might have some use for SD purposes when loaded with the newer buckshot rounds when humans will be the only likely target. I wouldn't even fully trust my 12 gauge with a full 3" round of 00 buck to go against a large predator like a bear, id want some full power slugs for sure.

To pack a .410 with buck against a bear seems like a good way to become a pissed off bears meal.
 
Forget the .410 shells for anything other than snakes, and rule them out for bears completely. There was an extensive thread on that topic recently.

The Judge is a fun gun, not a very practical one. If you're looking for a practical .45 Colt DA revolver that's not as bulky as the Redhawk, Taurus had a pre-Judge tracker that was chambered in .45 Colt. I had one for awhile and it worked well.
 
Redhawk was the first thing I thought of and then I saw the MSRP.:eek: Just too pricey anytime this decade unless Publisher's Clearinghouse finally gets around to sending that check:p. That's why I was wondering about the Judges and whether or not they could take hot loads or not. I can afford them if I sacrifice a few sections of my anatomy and save really well...
 
I would go with a S&W 629 4" in .44 Magnum, but that is me, and that is if it need be a double action. I do not really care for the looks of the SRH.
 
The Dixie Diarist said:
Another question on the .410's: would slugs work on large predators in 3 inch?
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.410 slugs have ballistics similar to a light .30 carbine round. Not ideal by any means. Even a heavy .38spl +P or .357 would be better.

The only decent slugs are the Brenneke's, and even those are only about 115gr doing maybe 1700FPS out of a long shotgun bore. Probably closer to 1100 or 1200 out of a handgun, or in other words, light 9x19mm ballistics.
 
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The .45 Colt is probably not the best choice for an "all around self defense gun". It would be better for large animals, but it sure limits your choices elsewhere simply because of the sizes available.

I'm not a great lover of the .44 mag, but it's certainly available in a lot more packages, some of which would be concealable. There are some excellent .44 Special defense loads and the hotter magnum loads would be adequate for black bears you might encounter in AZ. If price is a consideration, you might look at some of the Taurus revolvers.

That whole Judge/.410 thing strikes me as a bad idea.
 
Its not advised to shot a bear with your .410/.45. It will make him real mad :-0.
As far as self defense rounds, the first rule is to find the most powerful caliber that you can shoot accurately. The FBI found approx 400 ft/lbs of force minimum was suggested for self defense. A good self defense .38 round might be between 375-400 ft/lbs. A .45 will be in the 400-450 range. A few years ago, Evan Marshall did a study of verified one shoot stops. As I recall, a good .38 load was as good or better then .45 ball.
My .40 caliber S & W generates approx 550 ft/lbs with the load I carry.
 
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A footnote.
For your wifes gun, just remember that a larger handgun will absorb recoil. Those smaller guns with shorter barrels will make more noise and recoil more. You wife may not want to shoot one of those little guns more then once.
 
To pack a .410 with buck against a bear seems like a good way to become a pissed off bears meal.
Click to expand...

I've seen .410 bag all sorts of small to mid-sized game. I've seen it drop a deer. I've also seen a deer scamper away after taking a seemingly good shot, never to be found again.

I'm with others, I wouldn't use a 12 gauge slug against a bear much less a .410. Factor in the extremely short muzzle will drastically affect velocity, sounds like you may be bear food indeed. I'm no expert, just sounds like a bad idea. Just not the right combination of velocity and weight for large, fat game.
 
I was wondering about the Judges and whether or not they could take hot loads or not.
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No, they can't.

They are rated for standard pressure .45 Colt loads, and .410 shotgun shells.

Both run pressures well below the hot .45 Colt loads.

rc
 
stick to the .45 long colt if you are in bear country. Cant really think of a better handgun round than that for such a purpose.
 
it would be my suggestion that you reconsider the judge

It is not a very good shotgun and there are a LOT better 45LCs

Bang for the buck...Ruger wins
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I never had a .410 and was unfamiliar with its balistics. :uhoh: I have limited internet access at the library and so I can't look it up that often.

I do love the .45 LC, but I know that cowboy loads aren't suitable at much more than a muley at 20 yards or a white tail at 50, so I was looking for a gun that will take a hot load with a 300 grainer loaded out to 1000fps which produces 666.1 ft-lbs at the muzzle. There is a "Ruger" load that pumps it up to 1700 fps for nearly 2000 ft-lbs, but keep it in a '92 Winchester or better.

As to Taurus, I called them up and they refused to tell me what the pressure limits are on any of their guns. They "only recommend factory new ammo." I asked them if these are cowboy loads, standard loads or could they take "Ruger and Thompson/Center Only" loads and they replied with a really lame: "If it's in SAAMI specs, then it's okay." SAAMI specs? For which type of gun? C'mon, people. Let's at least be real with the customers, huh?:banghead:

Anyway, I think I will pay the extra for a Redhawk or maybe just get me Blackhawk and pay a little less and practise more...

.45LC only it is.
 
Anything will be better than the Judge, have you seen how unergonomic they are? Becuase of the long cylender for the 410 round they look as long as a 4in .356mag. Id say a better bet would be a .357mag or a snub .41 or 44 mag instead.
 
It sounds like the parameters have changed from defense gun to hunting gun. If that's the case then yeah, get a Ruger in .45 Colt.

Read up on the Bisley. It's essentially a Blackhawk with a grip shape designed to control the recoil of the heavier "Ruger only" hunting loads.
 
I am with Sniper X on this ...

A 180 gr Corbon 357 magnum hunting cartridge will do the job. And if we are talking grizzly bears or Alaskan Kodiac then a 44 magnum would be even better.
 
Dude...first, stop thinking 410 for bears or large animals.
Second, look for another manufacture than taurus....Imo I personally feel they are built crappy.
Third, I would not consider the judge as a good self defense pistol, at all.

If you are looking for a good self defense pistol (for two legged creatures), then that's an individuals choice. (see above)
In the parameters you set a .357 Magnum would fit. Save a little more and spend the extra cash to get a good revolver like SW, Ruger, or Colt- if you can find a low priced Colt. For 400 dollars you can find a good used SW or Ruger in .357 Magnum.
Good luck in your decission.
 
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