Alternative small pistol and rifle primers on Hornady LNL AP and Lee Safety Prime

[Radom Guy]

With so many of us using alternative primers these days (alternative meaning not Winchester, CCI, Federal, or Remington, which I also call the Big Boy primers), I want to let some folks know how some of them perform on a press.

Magtech small pistol primers (made in Brazil) “cycle” very well when loading 9mm Luger on my Hornady LNL AP. No flipping or jamming to date. The only exception was when the shell plate and carrier underneath had some small flakes of powder on it that needed to be cleaned off. Inserting primers into primer pockets was just as easy as the big boy primers.

Magtech SPP’s worked great with the Lee Auto Prime system on my Lee Classic Cast Turret Press.

Fiocchi small rifle primers (made in Italy) cycled perfectly with the Hornady LNL AP, and the Lee press. Normal force required to insert into primer pockets.

Servicios y Aventuras small pistol primers (made in Argentinia) work fairly well with the Lee Auto Prime system (used on Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro, Lee Classic Cast Turret Press and Lee single stage), but definitely require more work. When shaking primer trays (Lee as well as other brands), they need to be shaken for longer periods of time to get them all upright. It seems that the weight of them are not balanced the same as others. And as they slide down the Lee triangle style primer trays, there are always some that stick as they turn sideways during normal use of the Lee Auto Prime. Easy to resolve but an extra step.

When inserting into brass, I find that many require more effort than what is typical. Probably around 70% of them. In my experience, they will not insert into S&B brass at all, not even possible.

Regarding the Servicios y Aventuras in the Hornady LNL AP, for me, they are a show stopper. I loaded 100 of them in a primer tube for the press, and I could only get through one or two before they would either jam or flip. I had to stop that test after 20 attempts or so. After doing that I verified my primer system setup and the pawls, using my Braggin Rights products (they were spot on, but I backed out the pawls and reset them for posterity). I tried loading with them again. Same issues.

I have loaded around 400 of the Servicios y Aventuras primers by the way. 99% of them with the Lee for obvious reasons.

The primers of all three primer brands all detonated when struck by firing pins. I used hammer fired guns as well as AR style and striker fired guns. However, I cannot remember if I tested the Servicios y Aventuras with a striker fired gun.

Will I buy them again? Magtech and Fiocchi are a definite Yes. For me, they are as good as the big boy primers. I’m not sure if I would buy more of the Servicios y Aventuras. The price of those were hands down the best (5.5 cents a primer delivered). And they work. But, they obviously require extra work to be used on my reloading bench, which means extra time. My answer would depend on how much time I have at a given moment, and my personal primer supply. I can say that if I had no other primers and these were the only ones available, I would confidently buy them, knowing that they will require a little extra effort and time on my part.

Does anyone have details on how other alternative brands work, that they would like to share? I am curious about brands such as ZSR, Murom, MKE, UNIS Ginex, and even some who may have tried the new U.S. made Expansion Ballistics test batches that have gone out to lucky folks.

I hope this helps!

 

[dannyd]

I have loaded 1,050 Servicios without any problems.

Loaded Aguila(1000), Murom(2880) and all the Standard US Primers without any problems ether. Round count on my LNL is 115,254.

The primers slide needs to be clean and polished if you have not already, but you can also try adding a weight primer follower.

Also, if you have not tried us a little One Shot Case Lube on the your case's before loading. For me makes everything run smoother.



I don't own an AR or any semiautomatic rifles or pistols, so I have No first Hand experience with those firearms.

 

[Radom Guy]

I have loaded 1,050 Servicios without any problems.

Loaded Aguila(1000), Murom(2880) and all the Standard US Primers without any problems ether. Round count on my LNL is 115,254.

The primers slide needs to be clean and polished if you have not already, but you can also try adding a weight primer follower.

Also, if you have not tried us a little One Shot Case Lube on the your case's before loading. For me makes everything run smoother.

View attachment 1139948

I don't own an AR or any semiautomatic rifles or pistols, so I have No first Hand experience with those firearms.

As more of a curiosity thing, what do you mean by a “weight primer follower”? “Weighted” maybe? perhaps something heavier than the fiberglass one that it comes with? I did not know that such a product exists as this press is new, only four or five months old. I have been reloading for 11 or 12 years prior to now, though.

To respond to your comment, yes, everything was clean, timed, cases lubed with One Shot as always. Honestly, I am not really looking to troubleshoot the Servicios y Aventuras on the Hornady. I don’t really have the need to make time for it, as I have lots of other primer options that work very well. But maybe a weighted primer follower might be a handy accessory to try, as it would be very quick to do.

 

[dannyd]

The weight on primer follower is Hornady's idea that came with their control panel setup. The weight definitely does help; the weight and the Lockout die are the only thing I still use because the panel was a hassle.



I also judge people by round count and not years because I know guy's that started with me in 1987 and have not finished the 5,000 of primers they purchased then.

I Do Not load any rifle on the LNL because I don't load much rifle and like a single stage press. Out of 200,605 rounds loaded only 11,561 shotgun and 6,652 rifle everything else is for revolvers or revolver caliber rifles.

So I definitely not a rifle guy; I try and take up for the LNL because it gets a rap and is a good press. I have also owned Blue 550 and SDB, so anyone else reading be advised.

 

[mdi]

Across the board with every primer I have used work 100% in my ram prime. My much touted RCBS bench prime is at best 98% consistent (with the big boy primers too). I have only used "low bottom" primers from Wolf, MagTec, SA, and some HXP "pulls" large rifle and a few other eastern European made and found no particular manufactures' primers consistently produce failures in priming tools. I am of the opinion the priming tools are as much to blame as the primers themselves.

 

[Radom Guy]

The weight on primer follower is Hornady's idea that came with their control panel setup. The weight definitely does help; the weight and the Lockout die are the only thing I still use because the panel was a hassle.

View attachment 1139970

I also judge people by round count and not years because I know guy's that started with me in 1987 and have not finished the 5,000 of primers they purchased then.

I Do Not load any rifle on the LNL because I don't load much rifle and like a single stage press. Out of 200,605 rounds loaded only 11,561 shotgun and 6,652 rifle everything else is for revolvers or revolver caliber rifles.

So I definitely not a rifle guy; I try and take up for the LNL because it gets a rap and is a good press. I have also owned Blue 550 and SDB, so anyone else reading be advised.

Cool! I am sure that I can fashion some sort of weighted primer follower - when I first started using the Lee Auto Prime system I taped a penny onto the rear portion of its tray/hopper part to balance it and keep it out of the way until activated by me. Anyway, just an example.

With my bullet feeders I added my own followers (they had none) for the same reason as you describe for the primer follower. The bullets would not always fall down their respective tubes, so I cut four thin wood dowels to size to add just enough weight to assist. So of course that makes sense for primers, too, but I honestly thought that the follower was just for a visual to beware of depleting primers and to lock the slide back when empty. Using this Hornady is the first time that I have used a priming system that utilizes primer tubes like the Hornady, Dillon, etc., so it is still new to me and my workbench.

And if you are curious about how many rounds I have loaded in my 11 or 12 years, I definitely do not have an exact number. I would estimate it at around 50K (?) with shotshell, pistol, and rifle. Mostly pistol these days, but that will change as my kids get older and my parental duties change.

I appreciate the good press for the Hornady press, by the way (pun intended!)! To me it is like the old saying “it’s like driving a Cadillac” even though that may mean different things to different people. I am also a big supporter of Lee products for the most part, but definitely not in entirety.

 

[Radom Guy]

Across the board with every primer I have used work 100% in my ram prime. My much touted RCBS bench prime is at best 98% consistent (with the big boy primers too). I have only used "low bottom" primers from Wolf, MagTec, SA, and some HXP "pulls" large rifle and a few other eastern European made and found no particular manufactures' primers consistently produce failures in priming tools. I am of the opinion the priming tools are as much to blame as the primers themselves.

Good info/feedback! I agree with you that it’s not all on the primer manufacturing. That’s one reason why I do not hand prime (in addition to arthritis type issues). Lately I’ve been thinking about a Lee handheld press with a ram prime to prime while relaxing in front of the boob tube before bed, but my wrist joints would not like that job. I can definitely see why a ram prime would be so good.

 

[dannyd]

I used all the Lee products and have two of their single stage presses to make gas checks on.

I can load all the time because I have not had kids around the house in over 20 years.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I definitely agree on the Fiocchi primers. I much prefer them to Winchester primers.
My LNL-AP will feed all our domestic primers with no problems. It loves Fiocchi primers though and so do I.

I just got my AP put back together again. Timing was falling behind according to the case feeder so I had to get parts from Hornady to catch the timing up.
Timing pawls, Hub, new pins, and index wheel.
It was nice Hornady sent them to me for free also.

Mine was over 100K of loaded rounds and probably that much again from depriming them first before they were cleaned. That's for just the 9mm, and .357mags before I bought the ABLP for the .357mags.
Doesn't include the .41 mags and the 327 and 32 S&Ws. I lost an accurate count a long time ago.

I agree, they are good presses. Hopefully mine's good now for the next 200k.
I've not tried any of the South American or the Unix primers, so I won't comment on them.
If I find more Fiocchi primers that I can afford, I will be buying them.

 

[Radom Guy]

I used all the Lee products and have two of their single stage presses to make gas checks on.

I can load all the time because I have not had kids around the house in over 20 years.

DannyD, do you happen to know how much extra weight that the weighted primer follower adds? If not, no worries. I just added about 3/8 oz. in about 30 seconds to my follower. I can figure out more another time if need be, I just didn’t have the time today. My extra weight, by the way, are three upside down pieces of brass, all on top and over one another. A 22LR, 9mm Luger, and a 45ACP.

 

[thump_rrr]

The weight on primer follower is Hornady's idea that came with their control panel setup. The weight definitely does help; the weight and the Lockout die are the only thing I still use because the panel was a hassle.

View attachment 1139970

I also judge people by round count and not years because I know guy's that started with me in 1987 and have not finished the 5,000 of primers they purchased then.

I Do Not load any rifle on the LNL because I don't load much rifle and like a single stage press. Out of 200,605 rounds loaded only 11,561 shotgun and 6,652 rifle everything else is for revolvers or revolver caliber rifles.

So I definitely not a rifle guy; I try and take up for the LNL because it gets a rap and is a good press. I have also owned Blue 550 and SDB, so anyone else reading be advised.

Can you please elaborate why the panel was a hassle.
I always regretted not getting one while it was available.

I've never had primer issues with my LnL AP Progressive press.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

do you happen to know how much extra weight that the weighted primer follower adds?

The weight that came on my primer follower weighs about 400 grains. It has an o-ring on each end to hold it in place.

The weight definitely does help; the weight and the Lockout die are the only thing I still use because the panel was a hassle.

I don't think the control panals are a hassle at all, I really like mine. I got a good deal on three of them, I still have two, one on my machine and one for the next one I buy, which will be another Hornady. The third one I gave to a friend.
I like the powder and primer sensors, and the powder check die that comes with it is a lock out die, with the sensor on it.

 

[dannyd]

^^^^^^^ Everyone's mileage does very, but for me it was just to much stuff on the machine; I also got rid of the case feeder because it made to much noise.

I have had some problems with large pistol primers, but not with small.

Kept the powder lock out die and the weight. Put the rest in a box.

I believe (opinion) there may have been a patent problem with RCBS on the lockout die because it works good, but I have not been able to find it Hornady's site to purchase another one. If anyone has a link please share.

I never put more then 50 primers in the tube, but I also reload almost everyday and like to lessen to books on tape. So the noise of case or bullet feeder was not in the cards.

I have two LNL one for loading and one for de-priming cases and I was able to buy 180 bushings, so I have enough for a lifetime.

 

[Radom Guy]

This post is really meant to be about the alternative primer options and how they work on the reloading bench and at the range. I hope no one minds if I get a tad bit off topic, in case anyone is interested.

I tried the Servicios y Aventuras (let’s call them SA for my ease of typing!) again. Starting from scratch. Same as before, they jam up and don’t feed well with my Hornady LNL AP. I emptied the primer tube and started again. This time I added weight to the top of the follower, which was spent cases, 1 22LR, 1 9mm, 1 45ACP. Same results. Next I added a 200 grain bullet by taping it onto the 45acp case. This time it was running more smoothly for around 15 rounds until jams again. Next, fresh primer tube again, I taped the brass cases and bullet together onto the follower. Same as the previous time for results. I figured out what was going wrong at this point.

The unsupported unbalanced weight of the DIY weight on top of the follower caused the follower to move around and side to side when raising and lowering the ram. The bouncing of the primer follower (because of the off balance top heavy follower) was actually causing the primer tube to slowly pop out of the base (housing body primer tube) a little at a time. Then a couple primers would come out and actually get stuck in the release hole of the base.

If I bought one of the well made weighted primer followers, it would probably allow the SA primers to cycle in the press.

But as I wrote above, I have plenty of other primers that all work perfectly with the Hornady LNL AP, so it’s not really worth $30 to buy a weighted primer follower. And it’s not a good choice of time for me to keep trying different options. That was not the purpose of my post anyway. However it was really interesting to learn other people’s good experience with these primers on their Hornady LNL AP. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone!

Keep writing about your experiences with alternative primers here please, folks! I am really interested in the topic, and hopefully others are as well.

 

[Akula69]

I have used all of the above, including Murom. Most feed (Hornady LNL) and insert well except for the SA and the Murom. Murom in particular require a bit of force to get them to seat in US manufactured brass, and Ive crushed a few. But I only use them on range brass (and they have never failed to go off).

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I was able to buy 180 bushings, so I have enough for a lifetime.

Holy crap! That ought to last you for a while.

If I bought one of the well made weighted primer followers, it would probably allow the SA primers to cycle in the press.

Take a hollow point bullet and drill a hole almost the whole way through it, and put it down over the top of the rod so it stays in the center of the rod.
This is what my weighted rod looks like. It uses o-rings on each end of the weight so it can be adjusted.
You could do the same with a bullet if you ordered some orings from Hornady for the rod. They like to keep their customers.

Just tell them you want to buy the weight and o-rings, I'll bet they won't let you pay for them. Just have the serial number for the press handy and I'm sure you registered it with them for warranty reasons.
Even if you bought it used, how much could two o-rings and a weight cost from them?

Where did you get the $30.00 from? The rod that came with your press is the same rod that comes in the control panal. You already have the rod. Drill a bullet or fishing weight and put down over it. No money spent.

That will tell you whether it's a weight problem or a primer inconsistency problem with the South American primers.

 

[Radom Guy]

Holy crap! That ought to last you for a while.


Take a hollow point bullet and drill a hole almost the whole way through it, and put it down over the top of the rod so it stays in the center of the rod.
This is what my weighted rod looks like. It uses o-rings on each end of the weight so it can be adjusted.
You could do the same with a bullet if you ordered some orings from Hornady for the rod. They like to keep their customers.
View attachment 1140203
Just tell them you want to buy the weight and o-rings, I'll bet they won't let you pay for them. Just have the serial number for the press handy and I'm sure you registered it with them for warranty reasons.
Even if you bought it used, how much could two o-rings and a weight cost from them?

Where did you get the $30.00 from? The rod that came with your press is the same rod that comes in the control panal. You already have the rod. Drill a bullet or fishing weight and put down over it. No money spent.

That will tell you whether it's a weight problem or a primer inconsistency problem with the South American primers.

Thanks for the tips, and providing the close up! I do still have an open issue with Hornady that needs their attention so I can ask about the weight and o-rings at the same time. And it is in fact registered with them for warranty purposes, so that’ll help.

Regarding the $30 figure, I saw some Dillon weighted primer follower rods on eBay for around $30 - just a general reference is all. I actually did not know that Hornady still had the parts to add to the follower, since I could not find any weighted follower from Hornady online anywhere. But now I know what you just shared with me, thanks.

 

[dannyd]

When your on the phone with Hornady just ask them for a weight cannot hurt.

Got the bushings at a old gun shop for 70.00 dollars for the box retail that's about 1500.00 dollars.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have two LNL one for loading and one for de-priming cases and I was able to buy 180 bushings, so I have enough for a lifetime.

and I thought I had a lot when I was reorganizing my garage and figured out that I had about 30+

I was considering picking up another LNL and got sucked into the adventure of the new Lee Six Pack Pro...now I need to get more Breech Lock Spline Drive bushings

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I was considering picking up another LNL and got sucked into the adventure of the new Lee Six Pack Pro.

I did too, but my SSP didn't work out. Had to go back. Now with the primer situation the way it is, unless a used LNL falls in my lap, it's on hold.