Am I just getting old here?

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Robert put it nicely. Let me add a few things....

My HD 870 started getting the bells and whistles around 1980. I was working at the MD House of Correction and events there indicated I needed a defensive shotgun more than a goose gun.

I started with my old Number One 870 given me by my father in 1959 or so and went from there.

The barrel got shortened.

I added a peep sight and a front sight to match.

Better wood followed with a real recoil pad.

So did sling studs.

A two shot mag extension tucked in under the 18" barrel and a Side saddle were eventually added.

Sounds like a mallninja wish piece, right?

When I started, it had wear marks I put there in goose blinds, hedge rows and so on. Best guess, I had 50 Canada geese on it, and Heaven knows how much small game. In the course of the mods, I Brenekke'd a couple deer.

In 1983, I used it to take HOA my MD LE 3 gun league. In 1985, I used Number II to repeat.

Everything I added to it was carefully considered ahead of time and shot in. My status as an instructor had me on the range often and I used the time to T&E all the mods.

Dunno how many rounds I put through it but not less than 10K and probably more than 15K.

Do the same with yours and I'll not snivel.

Add the stuff without shooting the thing, do not expect my whole hearted admiration.....
 
Well Wiley, like you say, you're new here, so I'll give you abit of history. This board was started by Oleg when the old Firing Line board went belly up. Alot of old regulars from there came here. Back then everyone knew who was talking out of experience and who was talking out their butt. That was 10,000 members or so ago. I've given up on most of the forums now, and from the look of founding members who don't post anymore I think alot of others have too. I gave up on the pistol boards when I posted a question about my new Charles Daly 1911 that I was having some feeding issues with. I immediately got 20 responses about how stupid I was for expecting it to run. Not about how the gun was problematic, but about how dim I was for buying it. None of them knew me or how many guns I've fixed, or how many hours I spend at the range. I posted the same question on another board that specializes in long distance single shot pistols, not 1911's and got lot's of good ideas. Turns out I swapped out to different mags and that CD has been flawless.
Now I see the same thing happening on the shotgun forum which I always considered abit more well mannered. A week doesn't go by where someone doesn't ask about PGO shotguns. There are a couple of guys on here, and you'll figure out who if you stick around, who have had extensive training and real life utilization of shotguns. They will come in and gentlely respond their feelings on the usefullness, or lack there of, of a PGO shotgun. Almost before you can refresh the page there will be 5 kids come in behind them saying how they don't know what they're talking about and how they can shoot perfect scores with their PGO's loaded with 00. And yet as far as I know, no one has ever taken the Dave Challange.
And I am opinionated, and I was stating my opinion when I started this thread, even tho' most people have ignored it. If you have a Knoxx stock on your shotgun and can shoot well, more power to you. But if you have a bunch of plastic crap bolted on your gun and have to think to remember the last time you were at the range, your priorities are screwed. And if you voice your distain and superiority of the old fella with a stock 870 whose probably spent more time in harm's way that most people have spent on the range, well, then your opinion is worth almost as much as we've paid for it.
And Striker, that response is exactly the kind of post that keeps me out of the pistol forums. Glad you thought about it enough to delete it, but wish you had not posted it at all. Okay, you responded to that while I was typing, I pegged you wrong. Thanks for clearing that up. Problem with the internet is it's a crappy way to communicate. Too easy to misinterpret what someone is saying.
 
Okie,

No excuse, just flat wrong on my part. Need to engage brain before engaging mouth (or fingers in this case).
 
What do I know, I have Youth Single Shot in 20 ga.

I did get another elastic shell holder for the butt stock.
The first one held up fine, just it made sense at the time to put dawg treats in it, toss it out, and see how the dawg was going to get them big treats out of the thing , that was a bit tricky for me to get in it.

FWIW, a dawg can remove a treat from one of them things faster than one can stuff it...*grin*

My role is my role.
I started young, did my things, and all along the way did my role.

One has to have a good foundation in anything, before they can build upon it.

I have the right to be wrong, and by the same token, I have the right to be correct.

Correct basic fundamentals, a foundation, is that important to me.
It was how I was raised, mentored, and the way I choose to pass forward.

I still use BB Guns to assist new shooters, Brister sharing that in his work, just had me and mine just a grinning. WE did that w-a-y back when.

I still use a garden hose, to assist new shooters.

I still put a band-aid on the side of a gun , so a new person gets finger off trigger, and instills that Rule of Safety, that person , in short order, will get in the habit of putting a finger straight, when it is not trigger slapping time.

I am going to continue having dummy shells to assist with loading and unloading a shotgun.
I am going to continue having Primer only hulls and using this to add the dimension of noise, with a shotgun going off.

I will continue to trace correct "feets" for foot stance on cardboard, plywood, rubber mats.
Look in Misseldine's work and Grant Isleng has foot position on every station, to assist new shooters.

I am going to continue preferring to use a 28 gauge to introduce and assist new folks.
Dammit I am right on this! 28 gauge is that effective with its short shot string, less felt recoil.
I want folks to bust the smithereens out of stationary clay, a balloon, and moving clay. I want their self esteem so high, I want them to have fun!

Will Fennell and others start folks with 28 gauge too!

Safety is paramount, especially the safety of the student!

My role includes kids, ladies, physically limited and elderly. I chose this role.
Abused kids, ladies be they single, single moms, married,raped, beaten, assaulted and My role was to get them to safety and get them up to speed ASAP with a single shot shotgun, as by golly they and the kids if they had them, were in fear of life.

Don't tell me different, I have been there, done that.
I and mine have put ourselves in harm's way to assist these folks.

Same for Physically Limited and Elderly. Yes I know the .410 is not effective in its pattern.
You break you back, neck, hip, detach a retina, or have Osteo so bad you step out of bed and in doing so - break a foot.

Doctors and Physcial Therapist Orders on what can and cannot be done.
.22 Rifle, I don't give a damn what anyone says, if the person is going to permanently lose a eye, get paralyzed, and other damage, I am NOT going to do shotguns!

That grandparent, that used to shoot clays, and with raising kids, a family and all - has not in years.
Grandkid gets bigger and - by damn, we start with a 28 ga so that grandparent , grandkid, and parents can all shoot shotguns as a family.

Damn! I mean seeing a kid shoot a low 7 and bust it, with grandparent and parents - you cannot put a monetary value on that!

You have a grandparent dying, we all know it, still they do make that dove hunt.
Little Grandkid, not really big enough to shoot a shotgun by themselves, still on dove on the ground, and dying grandparent assists with that shotgun he got that kid.
That moment, that dove going to a taxidermist...Priceless!

My role what I chose to do, I promised me, and my mentors and elders.


Now- you want to learn to shoot Defensive? Fine, go see Awerbuck
You want to shoot Sporting Clays? Go see Will Fennell.

My role is to do my role so when you show up, like the lady I stood outside the curtain when the rape kit was done in the ER, and her son was being sent to OR for a busted leg, when she got better, time passed she got lessons from Missledine.

"What damn fool said gun fit was important and what idiot would shoot a 1300 for duck hunting" - Misseldine.
"Well Steve got me this far, and the gun fit , and some old fart named Fred uses 1300s".

Lady showed up to see a defensive shotgun trainer with a 1100 in 20 ga.
"Steve got me started, I know the 4 rules and this used skeet gun fits, for skeet. I am here to learn, and this is the only gun I have besides a .410 single shot, Steve gave me on a bad, bad night I try to forget.

Trainer did not look down on that used 1100 in 20 ga, with a fixed choked 26" barrel.
He saw grit, honesty, willingness to learn and pen and paper.
She run the gun, she did fine.
Trainer got some other guns, better suited for defensive use, tad shorter LOP, shorter barrel and these two measured, shot, made notes, and she even traced the damn thing to make sure on paper.

I have my convictions, and I have earned them. I have earned the trust of a lady, that really did not think too highly of men,as a man raped/assaulted, knifed, shot... ditto for kids, as a guy hurt them and their momma.

NO. I will not start a new person on a AR Stock for a shotgun, I am not that old, still I am not that young. I started too damn young, and am a product of my raisin', and dammit, a full stock, bone stock shotgun stock, wood, is what I want to start a new shooter out with.

Wood. Less felt recoil being denser, Gun fit can be tweaked, gun fit means that much to me, be it clay or defensive.

Now, once the correct basics are down, take them Wood measurements, and get a synthetic if need.

I am right! My Mentors were right! Some things just "are" and as Rand said
"A is A".

Larry Correia.
Now folks might think Larry and I are total opposites on shotgun thinking, we are not.

Larry learned to shoot and damn well, with a bone stock shotgun.
He chose to compete, and chose later 3 gun.
He added what he needed to shoot that game.

Saiga's come along and he tested and eval-ed them.

Short shotguns, he knows about, his clientle and his business is with some real deal folks that run toward trouble, like SWAT, and those in the Military.

Nothing wrong with these guns, if one can afford them, nothing at all.

Larry is damn good at teaching CCW btw, we agreed to disagree on firearms - we do agree each person is different, and where they live, political flavor, city vs rural and other factors play a role in choices.


First shotgun?
I am going to continue to suggest a bone stock, wood full stock, getting it fitted to shooter and getting the correct basics.

With such a gun, one can shoot clays, hunt, and handle a serious situation.

One can shoot at ranges, that otherwise restrict some configs.
One can show up to shoot quail in Georgia, or doves in TX or South American.
One can assist a daughter in the Girl Scouts, or son in the Boy Scouts...

None of this shooting stuff was ever about me, it was about others.

I have my fun, razz, tease, - deep down there is a damn serious side to me.

Oh some of the stuff I share, is not about shooting, it is about life, and how I was raised in regard to life.
Ruark wrote stories about hunting and fishing too, and he too shared about life and living life, mixed in with his works.


We all can look back, shake our heads and wonder why in the hell did we did , or thought what we did at that time.

Age , disease, injury, and death gets us all.

It ain't no big deal - and I ain't either.


I've stuck a fork in this one, and this one is done for me.
 
Well
I'm just a middle aged hillbilly plumber that has been totin" around a shotgun regularly since I was 9 I have never had to fire in defence the couple times I have had to bring a gun to bear it was enough to end the situation with out deadly force. I have been in a spot where missing equalled going hungry (I ain't missed too many meals. take that any way you want) I am old enough and smart enough to know words of wisdom and experience from words of someone with more money than brains and has probably fire less rounds than I have setting on my desk. If you Are new to shotguns You will do well to listen to people like Steve(sm) Robert or Dave and the other old timers here Any one who tell you that a gadget will make up for lack of experience is lieing to you. Any gun you plan on defending you family with ought to be an extention of you arm you should be able to work it in complete darkness. If I ever have to go into the dark with a gun and have to pick some one to cover my backside I'll pick an old fart that uses a single shot by choice over a gung ho yuppy with a tacticool gun every time you got to watch out for those old farts with a single shot they usually Know how to use them( I read old posts)


Disclaimer : this is the opinion of a
middle aged hillbilly plumber that
has been down the road a time or
two and are based on my personal
knowledge and experiences offered
to hopefully help you since we live
in a free country you have the right
to have a different opinion,
Some one asked the question
I am just trying to help
Roy
 
Hey, at least people are still buying guns, regardless of how much any one person cares for another person's choice in firearms, the important thing is that people are still buying guns. When we fail to pass on this particular freedom to the next generation is the day we will LOSE this right. There must be people to fight the good fight and today's young whippersnappers will be tomorrow's 2A defenders.

This coming from a former, and now reformed tacticool young whippersnapper.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I respect them all just the same whether or not I agree with them or not. Just remember: If we don't hang together, we will hang seperately.

For what it's worth, I agree! Just asking to not alienate the younger crowd. Just because one starts out on a silly path doesn't mean they won't wind up on the correct one.
 
The only mod on my Mossberg 500 (18"bbl, 5x3" magazine) is a gooshy recoil pad. I'd originally bought it for the wife to use as an HD gun.
 
I'm primarily a lurker here. Don't know a lot about shotguns. Tryin' to learn. Used to know a lot about baseball. Couple of decades or more past. For the lower levels, nothing better than a well worn in glove to tell you that a kid could play. Shiny new glove meant his mom bought him something at the sporting goods store. At the higher levels, players got their gloves from the reps. Different quality. All depends. Can you use the glove? Can you run the gun?
 
Not sure how anyone can say a Knoxx stock that was purchased with the shotgun (as Remington now sells them on their units as stock, stocks) can be viewed as a Ninja toy.

I'm new here but one thing I can and will say (I'm sure I will get in trouble for this, but I don't care) people on this board are over opinionated, and argumentative.... and they like to trash others.

THANKS - Apology accepted

You're wrong. Nobody here is opinionated or argumentative. Maybe you but nobody else. No apology for you. No soup for you either. :)

Your first paragraph misses the point completely. Remington is a business. Businesses sell what people want to buy or they either go out of business or get acquired by more successful businesses.

The point isn't about what businesses sell but about what people buy and--more important--
why they buy it. There's nothing wrong with the Knoxx stocks per se or about having one on a shotgun. What we--at least I--are talking about is whether you are a nice guy with a nice gun or a shooter. By the way, I know many shooters who have pretty guns too. But those people are hell on wheels with those guns as well as the ugly ones. Having a ratty shotgun is not necessarily the sign of a shooter. The results are what count.

As for online attitudes .... Read the message you posted and to which I responded. Attitude? For hurt feelings I have an inexhaustible supply of sympathy chits I got from the Chaplain's office years ago. You can have all you want. Got little bandaids too for the ouch.

Get past the fog. It's not about grizzled old guys telling stories about ancient wars and how times were better then. It's about what works, what doesn't, and what can save your life or get you dead. You don't have to listen to it or even to like it. Much of what's transmitted is necessarily anecdotal: the best anyone can do is relate what they've learned based on their experiences and observations. Better from them who know it firsthand than from all the many others who have read about it on the Internet, seen it on TV or in the movies, played it on a videogame, or thunk it up all by themselves.
 
I own a Remington 1100 and a Winchester Model 12 and a Mossberg all in 12 gauge.They are all stock,however I would like a Ghost Ring setup on all three.Nothing more,nothing less.The bells and whistles are only on my bicycle.
 
No,John, nobody has taken up the gauntlet.

For those coming in late, here's the challenge. Any PGO fan can pick the course of fire, ammo and distance. He/she can use ANY accessory up to radar and belt feed. I'll use a more or less standard 870 with a real wood stock on it. Score wins, time settles ties but there will not be one. Scores and results. will be posted here and the loser buys the coffee and Krispy Kremes.

And ancient as I am, I'm fond of new Beretta O/Us, F/O sights, 7/8 oz loads, recent recoil pads like Sims, KickEez and the Decellerator and other stuff I've found to work by using it.

It's not technology that chafes me, it's mindset.
 
I guess I need to unsubscribe to this thread because DAMMIT, I'm gettin' PISSED!

This ENTIRE thread began with a highly condescending tone by Okiecruffler which very clearly indicated his disdain and outright laughter at those who deviate from *simple*, stock shotguns.

Then the bandwidth is flooded with pics of their HD gun, always a black 12ga pump or auto with attached light, laser, disco ball, GPS, anti-lock brakes and 5 inch LED screen. Then we hear about how their 27 round extended mag is loaded with depleted uranium laser guided heat seeking controlled explosive slugs. Where do you people live? My father once gave me some good advice about buying cars. He said never pay for all the add on bells and whistles, they'll just fail when you start relying on them. K.I.S.S. I don't know, maybe I'm just getting old and cranky.

HELL Okie! How can you read your own words above and not see how arrogant that sounds? You started this thread assuming that you were going to get flamed and now everyone's surprised that it has resulted in exactly that, turning into a highly polarized debate? JEEZZ!

NONE of us who frequently read the Shotgun section of this forum doubt the experience and wisdom that comes by way of SM, Dave, Robert or yourself. The issue for me is not the validity of that advice. The issue is in the condescending delivery of the message.

In Post #128 you make the following statement:

I gave up on the pistol boards when I posted a question about my new Charles Daly 1911 that I was having some feeding issues with. I immediately got 20 responses about how stupid I was for expecting it to run. Not about how the gun was problematic, but about how dim I was for buying it. None of them knew me or how many guns I've fixed, or how many hours I spend at the range.

Yet that's EXACTLY the kind of judgemental attitude that prevails in your opening statement, suggesting that those who have these *whistles and bells* are somehow ill-trained and mentally ill-equipped to use a shotgun. Further statements from several would suggest that anyone who equips their shotgun with anything other than wood stocks and bead sights must be trying to compensate for their inability and inexperience. You know, that is probably true in some instances. BUT IT AIN'T ALWAYS SO!

You guys do not have the MARKET CORNERED on how to equip and run a shotgun. You undoubtedly do have vastly more experience than me or most others here. We would all be well advised to listen to that experience and use it where appropriate. But, that doesn't magically make it OK to broad-brush those who utilize new technology as inexperienced and ill-trained. Whether you said those actual words or not, that's damn-well how they sound!

Now, I'm probably going to regret this little tantrum. I'm sure I'll be slapped down for it and probably deservedly so. But, Lord knows, there have been plenty of others wane on and on with their opinions here. I suspect one more won't hurt.

I'm going to bed. When I read this in the morning I'm sure I'll want to apologize to the whole world...

stelllarpod
 
Dave, I been trying to make a point now for 6 pages, you come along and make it in 8 words.

Now Stella, I ain't never met an Okie I didn't like (except my ex-fiance, and I suspect she was really a Texican in disguise) and I ain't gonna start now. But if you're gonna quote me at least use the whole quote. You left out a bit.
Everytime someone post a question about "is such and such adaquate for HD?" Immediately they are beseiged with folks posting about how that was only adaquate in the 1200's when bad guys were polite and would faint at the sound of a harsh word.
Now if you don't fit into that group of folks who hold their collective noses at anything below tackicool, I'm not sure how your nose got so bent. I've never said that everyone with tricked out SG's is a mall ninja, I've repeated that enough, I won't repeat it again. I will however stand behind my statement that 90% of the shooters I've seen with those weapons should spend more time at the range and less time reading soldier of fortune. I'll even go this far (and this is sure to get some panties in a wad) I have never seen anyone with an AR15, tricked out or not, who could shoot better than 3 inch groups at 100yrds. I assume the weapon is capable. I assume there are subMOA AR15 shooters out there, but I haven't seen them. It's not just the SG gadgets I take issue with, hell, it's not the gadgets at all (I've been seen once or twice playing with a PGO and had a big grin on my face while doing it, at least until I tried buckshot in it). I take issue with the modern mindset of thinking you can pass over the basics if you just buy enough gear. Now if you want to play the game that way yourself, no harm no foul I suppose, but there are those who like to come off sounding like an expert who are passing this garbage off to new shooters. It boils down to this, if you can't shoot, you can't shoot, and nothing you bolt, screw or glue on that gun is gonna make a bit of difference.
 
I going to add one thing Stellarpod the more thing you have on a gun the more things to consider in a defence sittuation the more time it takes the 1/100th of a second deciding light or lazar may be the difference between life and death the traditional achery old timers will set up a big target and shoot blindfolded to develope form if you can not run anything on a gun easily blindfolded it can get you killed, or worse a loved one.
Okie do you like old hillbillies that lived there for a while ? I spent a couple years around billings /tonkawa area
 
There's a special place in my heart for hillbillies. My ma's kin are from Kentucky and Tennesee. There's a couple of them that ain't seen shoes in years. Not to mention having a bit of Bill Monroe's (if you don't know, I can't explain) blood running thru my veins, I hear the constant sound of bluegrass in my head.
 
I'm just trying to find out how the Knoxx spec-ops stock works is all - does it perform as advertised???

Yep, it does. I like mine.

BTW, this is my home defense weapon :neener:

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I'll even go this far (and this is sure to get some panties in a wad) I have never seen anyone with an AR15, tricked out or not, who could shoot better than 3 inch groups at 100yrds.

You went too far.

You can start with the Mods. Several of them own AR-15s and by all accounts can shoot at least that well, although I have not seen it. Me too.

In fact if you posted that in the Rifle or general section (or competition) you will quickly become overwhelmed with offers to show you in person. In fact I know several 8-10 year old boys that I have seen shoot at least that well with an AR-15. Try going to a police competition sometime and see how many ARs come out and what type of skill you see displayed.
 
See, I knew I could poke the bear some more. Like I said, I'm sure there are some folks out there who can shoot those things. I've seen the groups posted in competions, so I know the rifle is capable of it. But I haven't seen anyone, and I mean anyone, who can shoot one. And I spend alot of time at the range. Unfortunately the last LEO I spoke with at the range became upset with me. He was busy telling me how he can pull off a head shot at 300yrds with his cruiser 870. I simply asked him to show me, I wanted to see someone who could shoot that well. (That BTW is not a slam against LEO's, most of my father's family are in law enforcement)
Now I do shoot at a range where the sheriff's department does alot of shooting, but I've never been there when they have their rifles out. Too bad, I'll bet it's a hoot. Now those fellas can shoot those SG's tho. But they are bone stock 870's.
I'm actually becoming kinda curious about the AR15 even tho it's not my style. I wouldn't use it for HD, neighbor's never wronged me any, but I would like to see what one could do from the bench with tailored loads.
 
I'm a retired LEO from a MAJOR city in the North East 35 years total in LE. I have shot quite a few shotguns (I'm no expert, but I'm no newbie either) -

So folks relax... The Knoxx stock does what it's supposed to, if you don't like it who cares, don't buy it... But why knock people who have them.

A well written post about your opinion is all - no need to go over the top with name calling because someone is using something you don't have and probably can't afford - and yes I am pretty sure I'm right about this forum!!!
 
Now if you don't fit into that group of folks who hold their collective noses at anything below tackicool, I'm not sure how your nose got so bent. I've never said that everyone with tricked out SG's is a mall ninja, I've repeated that enough, I won't repeat it again. I will however stand behind my statement that 90% of the shooters I've seen with those weapons should spend more time at the range and less time reading soldier of fortune.

And here we go again...

I would humbly submit to you that 90% of ALL SHOOTERS should spend more time shooting and perhaps less time posting diatribe on the Internet - that includes ALL of us.

You make a distinction, using words like "tackicool" to emphasize your point. IMHO there is a grain of validity in your statements, insomuch as most shooters (myself included) do not spend enough time with proper training and squeezing the trigger in general. There is no question that many a budding shooter falls for the marketing hype that promotes all kinds of *inventive* solutions. Some of those solutions are valid, most probably are not.

My issue with the philosophy promoted in this thread is the retro-snob elitist tone which seems to patently dismisses the viability of new technology, and sadly labels those who engage it as untrained, incapable and not worthy of "watching your six". The truth is that probably MOST of us fit into that category, regardless of the equipment we use. I don't have to, in Zumbo fashion, vilify the "black gun" to make that point. I've seen just as many scattered patterns at the benchrest range from good ol' wood-stocked rifles to make that conclusion.

Okiecruffler, I'm not questioning your ability, your wisdom or your manhood. Perhaps your reference to me as "Stella" was a jab at my manhood - or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. But, I patently dismiss your argument that black gun generally indicates poor shooting skills. It's not the kind of skin-deep judgement that I'm comfortable with. I will however agree that most of our fraternity should spend more time walking and less time talking.

Now, in the spirit of broad-brush I'll take a stab at voicing my own conclusion: It appears to me that the average shooter these days is dramatically out of shape and overweight. I, too am carrying more weight than I should be, and am working diligently to correct that. I would suggest that most of us who are concerned about our ability to employ a successful defense should worry more about how many donuts we're eating than what kind of weapon we're using. In my observation it seems that the average weight of the shooting fraternity is increasing at a frightening pace. I suspect heart attacks and strokes will kill more of us than failed *tacticool* equipment. Just my opinion.

As far as you liking me as an Okie; Actually, I'm a Texan by birth and an Okie by choice. Perhaps it's the Texan in me that gives pause to your ability to maintain your "ain't met an Okie I didn't like" attitude. And for that, I can find it in my heart to cut you a little slack. :D :D :D

stellarpod
 
Well now Wiley, I thought you said,
I'm just trying to find out how the Knoxx spec-ops stock works is all - does it perform as advertised???
If you already have one and know it works, I'm getting confused. (Don't worry, it's a normal state for me. I'm used to it.)
And I have to say in my defense since you've alluded to me being a poor southern boy, I'd be willing to bet I pull down more per year than at least 80% of the people on this board. And with you being a retired LEO, I'd be pretty confortable putting you in that 80%. I ain't saying that's right. I always wondered why we pay the people who we expect to protect us so little. But I also don't hide the fact that I make money. I make money because there isn't a pediatric nursing certification that I don't hold. I also work five 12 hour shifts a week. I earn every dime. But that's beside the point, I don't judge folks by how much money they make. Just don't want you to get the idea that everyone who uses a simple no-frills SG does it because they can't afford no better. I've seen pictures of Dave's Frankenstein, and no offense meant here Dave, it looks like it came out of the back room in a thrift store. But you think I'd put 2 dimes against him when he's shooting it? My momma only raised one fool and he don't live in my house.
But Wiley don't judge the whole forum by my one post. Ask anybody around here, I like poking at folks. Read some the other posts.
 
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