gunsmoke178
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- May 22, 2011
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- 7
My guess for the decrease in gun sales for 2014 March .
Less money from Tax returns .
More taxes .
slavery by sword or taxes .
Less money from Tax returns .
More taxes .
slavery by sword or taxes .
Americans are buying fewer guns says Smith & Wesson
- Thread starter Kynoch
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22-rimfire
Member
Yes, taxes did increase for 2014.
Kynoch
member
The same factors that effected March of 2014 also effected March 2000-2013.
Gun sales are dropping across the board and some seem curiously slow to accept that fact.
S&W isn't worth a crap anymore. If they would go back to forged internals and get rid of the worthless locks I guarantee they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough. No way am I going to pay $750 for a MIM parts pos with an internal lock. The internal lock is a no go for me even if they lowered the price to $450 I still wouldn't even consider one.
Blade First
Member
"Gun sales are dropping, and NICS checks are being required more and more. There's absolutely no question."
Well, yes...there is a question.
Seldom have we encountered in this forum a series of such cocksure assertions that are not only unsupportable but unconnected to any semblance of economic or statistical data.
Won't even attempt to address all of them [bad use of time], but I'll address the one quoted above, keeping in mind that sheer speculation isn't included in the scientific method.
Gun sales are *not* dropping; they are, perhaps [for a variety of reasons] increasing at a slower rate, but they are certainly not dropping....and NICS/state system checks *are* more common. Do you see the relationship?
If you don't, realize that it is the direct result of more customers buying more new/used firearms from FFLs.
On behalf of those of us who actually have experience in the firearms business, let me suggest you revisit the statistical difference between correlation and causation. We have to regularly or suffer the consequences.
And, while you're at it, why not investigate the BATFE's estimate for the total number of firearms "owned" in the USA. Since it hasn't substantially changed in decades, I'm suspicious. How 'bout you?
Well, yes...there is a question.
Seldom have we encountered in this forum a series of such cocksure assertions that are not only unsupportable but unconnected to any semblance of economic or statistical data.
Won't even attempt to address all of them [bad use of time], but I'll address the one quoted above, keeping in mind that sheer speculation isn't included in the scientific method.
Gun sales are *not* dropping; they are, perhaps [for a variety of reasons] increasing at a slower rate, but they are certainly not dropping....and NICS/state system checks *are* more common. Do you see the relationship?
If you don't, realize that it is the direct result of more customers buying more new/used firearms from FFLs.
On behalf of those of us who actually have experience in the firearms business, let me suggest you revisit the statistical difference between correlation and causation. We have to regularly or suffer the consequences.
And, while you're at it, why not investigate the BATFE's estimate for the total number of firearms "owned" in the USA. Since it hasn't substantially changed in decades, I'm suspicious. How 'bout you?
You have to look at the whole story the graph tells. Making the assumption that the lower number in 2014 is indicative of a trend towards buying fewer guns, then one would also have to assume that the dip in sales in 2010 was also the beginning of a trend. Clearly the numbers for 2011, 2012 and 2013 demonstrate that wasn't the case. The same could be true of the dip in 2014 sales.
Kynoch
member
Naw. Ruger, Remington and the others are in the same boat as the market is cooling.
Kynoch
member
What exact "facts" are you bringing to the table? You're doing nothing more but giving your personal opinion.
The drop in NICS checks document that fact that the volume of ALL firearms transactions -- new and used is dropping. No tap-dancing around that fact.
The drop in individual manufacturers' sales -- be it S&W, Ruger, Remington or whomever shows that the sales of new guns is also dropping. Again, there's no tap-dancing around that fact.
I'm not sure why some feel antagonized by the drop in firearms sales?
Blade First
Member
"S&W isn't worth a crap anymore."
So, who is?
I'm with you...the infamous lock is not only expensive but dangerous as well. But who makes an alternative at $200 less than a J-frame that you want to use other than a gun-range toy?
At the other end of the scale, I'm not going to spend 5x the cash to have Korth send me a revolver from the fatherland unless I absolutely have to add it to my collection..
Currently, S&W is still at the top of the pyramid here in the USofA but Ruger is always in the wings. Both have broad product lines and superior consumer service departments. For me, the choice to pick up a revo or two is a no-brainer. Simple: loading, extracting empties, reloading...what could be easier?
So, who is?
I'm with you...the infamous lock is not only expensive but dangerous as well. But who makes an alternative at $200 less than a J-frame that you want to use other than a gun-range toy?
At the other end of the scale, I'm not going to spend 5x the cash to have Korth send me a revolver from the fatherland unless I absolutely have to add it to my collection..
Currently, S&W is still at the top of the pyramid here in the USofA but Ruger is always in the wings. Both have broad product lines and superior consumer service departments. For me, the choice to pick up a revo or two is a no-brainer. Simple: loading, extracting empties, reloading...what could be easier?
Not quite. It documents that sales dropped between the last two samples in the graph. Sales may still be dropping, they may have leveled off since the last sample (5 months ago) or sales may have actually increased since the last sample in the graph was taken.
To see that this may be the case, look at the 2010 sample. Clearly it was lower than the 2009 sample. Did it indicates that sales were dropping? It did show that they dropped since the 2009 sample but it obviously didn't mean that firearm sales were trending down since 2011, 2012, and 2013 all showed an upward trend.
Without more data we can't say that it is dropping, only that it dropped for the last sample.
GBExpat
Member
Well, I have (so far) purchased my 2 handguns (both .44spc) for the year ... but they weren't S&Ws.
Kynoch
member
Korth died. Did someone resurrect its carcass?
Kynoch
member
Quite. I didn't look at this chart in a vacuum. There's also other data available -- including directly from the manufacturers that tells me that it's a...TREND.
jcwit
member
Not sure why, but here in Indiana a NICS check is required for every purchase from an FFL.
Ed Ames
Member
Either your concealed carry license background check doesn't meet the requirements to bypass NICS, or your state legislature hasn't made the required changes to state law.
Plus: A NICS check is required for every purchase of guns, not for every gun purchased. Even without a CHL my guns-from-FFLs count would be higher than my personal NICS count.
jcwit
member
Explain that first point to me a little further, 1st you do, then you don't??????????????
You can buy multiple firearms in one transaction at an FFL with only one NICS check
jcwit
member
Gotcha!
Kynoch
member
I do sort of wonder why some are showing so much agitation at what's obviously a slowing market? The fact that it's slowing from an almost obscene spike means it's still a strong market. One thing to watch:
Remington or especially Ruger dropping their expansion plans. Now THAT would be signs of a serious retrenchment.
Remington or especially Ruger dropping their expansion plans. Now THAT would be signs of a serious retrenchment.
...so, you can't use NICS checks to determine national sales of firearms
Kynoch
member
Of course you can.
So long as those requiring NICS data hasn't changed drastically the variable is controlled. If anything, NICS checks are required more and more which would work in favor of those who deny that gun sales are dropping.
Kynoch
member
Another interesting graphic:
You can't know if those requiring NICS checks has changed significantly or not. For example, states like GA have no singular database telling you how many weapon carry licenses holders there are.
There are more and more licensed carriers across the nation, combined with states where a carry license can mean no NICS check to buy a gun, more and more NICS exempt gun sales
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