Another bear question...

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SuperFlanker

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I've found many incarnations on this topic, about various calibers but none addressing the following hypothetical scenario:

If I get attacked by a bear lets say 10-15 yards away, if I unload an ar-15 as fast as I can, a full 30 round magazine xm193 clip from a 16 inch barrel, aiming for headshots, could I drop the bear before it attacks me?
 
Nope. Bears are extremely fast. Unless you get EXTREMELY lucky, and with an AR-15 I'm talking a golden BB, you have nearly no chance to inflict critical brain trauma on a bear before it can cover that distance. The only real chance to drop a bear would be to hit the cerebellum or the brain stem, the area that affects balance. On a bear, that's located all the way at the back of the skull. Your odds of dropping it that quickly are VERY slim. And being able to make accurate aimed shots would require balls of steel. About the ONLY hope you could possibly have is if the bear rears up on its hind legs before charging you. In this case you might be able to pump enough rounds into its chest to do the job. Otherwise, you're toast.
 
seeing as an AR is a semi-auto and a long gun, you would never get the rounds off in time... a bear will cover that short distance before you shoulder and take aim... if it was 50 yards away, you may have a chance to persuade him to go the other way, but inside 15 yards... with an AR-15, you are better off playing dead..... (not that i would recommend that, but some say it works... )
 
Playing dead only works against grizzlies and brown bears. Not against black bears. Black bears are harder to provoke, but once they attack, they're going to kill you unless you kill them or somehow drive them off.
 
My hypothetical answer is sure - why not ! Shooting FMJ's should give good penitration and I would think a couple might get through to disrupt the central nervous system.

Hell - I'm willing to give it a go .
 
A black bear can run 30mph. That is about 44fps. The bear will be up to full speed within the first couple of steps. That would probably give you what.... 1/3 of a second to aim and fire before Ursa gets to you. How many shots, from condition red (locked, cocked, off safe, and finger on the trigger) can you fire, let alone aimed in that time. At 40 ft, you'll have 1 1/4 seconds (assuming it takes a full 1/4 second to get to speed). I still couldn't get more than a couple of aimed shots in off hand. CNS shots would be all luck, most would enter the body. A .223? You'd be lunch. Even if you killed the bear in less than 15 ft, if it got to full speed you could still be run over by a dead 200lb bear (momentum will carry it that far).
 
you could still be run over by a dead 200lb bear (momentum will carry it that far).
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that would totally suck.... but it is what i have tried to convey time and time again..... at that range.... even a much larger round isnt going to do you a whole lot of good..
 
I can't tell if thats a troll or a real question.

Please, use the search feature. This topic has been beaten to death 1000 times over.
 
PT1911,
At that distance, I would want a semi 12 GA with nothing but slugs. A semi would at least allow a double tap.

SF,
I could probably get 10 semi aimed shots off with a PTR, but what would the chances be of a debilitating hit? Bears have hard skulls, and they are sloped so a brain shot might not work if not perfect. It would probably deflect. Spine, its hard to hit a 2 inch wide moving column at a walking speed, let a lone really moving out. I have seen 200 lb deer get hit by an astrovan moving about 50 mph (approx 70-75 fps). Thats a 2k lb (14,000,000 gr "slug") and the deer got up and ran off. It probably died later, but it got back up!!! I have seen them do that with a .30-06 too. Just imagine what an animal with more muscle, a reason to not like you (that is at least justified to them, if not you) and amped up an adrenalin can take.
 
Mike the Wolf knows of what he speaks. In 4 years in Alaska I never saw a guide carrying less the a 375 H&H as a stopping gun. The only reliable way to stop an attack, as you described it, is to break the bear down by hitting the front shoulder with caliber large enough to shatter it.
 
The only way I can see you getting thirty rounds into a bear from 30-45 feet is if the bear is already dead. That won't even happen if you were to go crazy and sneak an AR into the zoo.

I've been ~12 feet from T-boning a brown bear while riding a dirtbike. You'll want a 105mm howitzer. You'll practically have nothing more than a few 12 gauge slugs, or large-bore rifle cartridges.
 
at that distance, i think your ar15 would have to be a full auto to get all 30 rounds off. like others have said, bears are F A S T ! remember, bears have 4 paw drive! lol. now, could you stop it, well, that is only a hypothetical question, that can only be answered hypotheticaly. is it possible, certainly. is it probable, i rather doubt it. in that scenario, IMO, there are only 2 ways to stop said bear. 1) completely turn its entire brain to mush, and blow it out the back side of its head, or 2) completely sever its spinal cord. if you were lucky enough to do either of these with a semi-auto 5.56, you had better go out and buy every lottery ticket available, because all of the planets and stars would be perfectly alined, and it would be your day! your chances of doing this with a full auto ar10 (.308) would be much better, but a semi-auto, at that distance, you would be lucky to get 3 shots fired.
 
OK so it seems like a semi-auto is stacked for the bear.
Let's upgrade to a class-3 full auto now.
 
The only reliable way to stop an attack, as you described it, is to break the bear down by hitting the front shoulder with caliber large enough to shatter it.
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yep. I've shot 2 of them(hunting, not defense situations). Break the shoulder(s) with a well constructed bullet from a .338wm or larger, they go down immediately. I've been on a few hunts with others, and I can tell you a 300wm double lung is less than optimal. They died, but not before going a few hundred yards.
 
If its a semi auto you wouldn't have time to fire all 30 rounds. If its full auto you wouldn't hit a damn thing after the first 5 rounds.
 
-That's why you always have at least two dogs with you at all times in bear country. The dogs will give you time to place your shots.

This can be hard on the dogs, though... and can really spoil your hunt, if the dogs aren't properly trained. It may break a few game laws, as well.
 
In this case the old joke is most certainly true. Your best bet with a .223 would be to shoot the guy with you, this would "stop" the bear when he's munching on your buddy. Nothing less for bear then a 12 ga.Slug/.454 Casul/375 H &H.
 
Use the same gun that you'd use if it was a zombie attack! :D

In this case the old joke is most certainly true. Your best bet with a .223 would be to shoot the guy with you, this would "stop" the bear when he's munching on your buddy.
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I always heard that playing dead would keep bears from attacking because they like their prey alive. You wouldn't want to shoot to kill your buddy, maybe just a leg shot so he won't be able to run as fast as you.
 
I have to disagree with most of the posts on this thread. I don't know about an ar (because the darn thing might not work when you need it) but an ak with a 30 round clip I think would stop a bear. I did not say kill, although it could. The OP didn't suggest a caliber in the ar, I'm hoping he wasn't thinking about the .223.

Many of you talked about how fast bears are. How many of you are speaking from internet or book knowledge? They are very fast. Have you witnessed them stop? From a full charge? They stop as fast as they start. It's one of the most amazing animals to me, which is why they are my passion. One hasn't lived until a bear running full out at you stops like you pushed the pause button on your tv at about 5 feet from you and stands up.

My son dropped a bear last year on a full run towards us at a distance of less than 30 feet. So, it can be done without thirty rounds. My suggestion, bring enough gun.

One bear that I spotted last year was too small, but I thought I would call him just for fun. Because that's what I do. He was busy looking for food on a hillside. I moved next to a stump, knelt down and started calling. It took him a few seconds to respond, at first it was almost as if he was hard of hearing. But then, as if his hearing all of a sudden worked, he whirled around, stood up, and then dropped and ran straight at me. As I usually do, I was going to stand up when he got closer. When I went to stand up, something got caught on the brush I was in and I ended up on my face instead of my feet. The bear didn't stop until he was over the top of me. But he stopped instantly. Excitement? Yes, more than a little. My point, they stop quicker than anything I've ever seen and they seem to be able to make the decission to stop extreemly quickly.
 
One bear that I spotted last year was too small, but I thought I would call him just for fun. Because that's what I do. He was busy looking for food on a hillside. I moved next to a stump, knelt down and started calling. It took him a few seconds to respond, at first it was almost as if he was hard of hearing. But then, as if his hearing all of a sudden worked, he whirled around, stood up, and then dropped and ran straight at me. As I usually do, I was going to stand up when he got closer. When I went to stand up, something got caught on the brush I was in and I ended up on my face instead of my feet. The bear didn't stop until he was over the top of me. But he stopped instantly. Excitement? Yes, more than a little. My point, they stop quicker than anything I've ever seen and they seem to be able to make the decission to stop extreemly quickly.
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.....in my opinion "playing" with bears will eventually lead to the fate of Steve Irwin, God rest his soul. To each his own, however. May luck be with you.

- regards
 
I always heard that playing dead would keep bears from attacking because they like their prey alive. You wouldn't want to shoot to kill your buddy, maybe just a leg shot so he won't be able to run as fast as you.
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it has nothing to do with their preference for live prey... the great majority of bear attacks are not out of hunger but out of surprise and defense.. they stop (sometimes) when someone plays dead because the threat has been neutralized...

there are exceptions to this of course, but in most cases, the bear is just as surprised as the "victim"...

so... in summary.. shoot your friend in such a way that he will be able to physically fight the bear just not get away...:D
 
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