AR-15 with suppressor and da switch. Also, a good bolt-action .22LR for varminteering, and a suppressor for that also.
Another SHTF thread
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Jake...and Tod now that I'm thinking about it... check out the book "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab - Descent Into Anarchy"
O'Dwyer's story is in there. Make of it what you will.
More to the point it might provide a good picture of actual post-disaster thinking on the part of remaining (and overtaxed) government.
O'Dwyer's story is in there. Make of it what you will.
More to the point it might provide a good picture of actual post-disaster thinking on the part of remaining (and overtaxed) government.
Ed,
The scary thing is that if the government did that to that man (lawyer, stable, male, white), they'll do the same to anybody else. Some people view the civil breakdown after Katrina as an aberration. However, I do not underestimate how much the government is capable of such a breakdown in future. It's a learning experience for sure.
-Jake
The scary thing is that if the government did that to that man (lawyer, stable, male, white), they'll do the same to anybody else. Some people view the civil breakdown after Katrina as an aberration. However, I do not underestimate how much the government is capable of such a breakdown in future. It's a learning experience for sure.
-Jake
I know it's not quite what you asked, but if it were me in that situation, I'd take my Steyr M9A1 (or any similar polymer high-cap handgun - Glock, XD, etc). In the scenario you've put forth, the real goal is rebuilding a functioning and durable community, not wandering the wilderness looking for people to shoot. With no medical services around, how many gunfights are you likely to survive before you get wounded badly enough to bleed out or die of infection?
A pistol would be enough for self-defense, and every pound of gun you can ditch is an extra pound of food, water, commo, med gear, or other more generally useful tools you can carry.
Now, if our brave hero finds a functioning community and takes a job as a security guard, it's a whole different ball game. Then we can bust out the NVGs and IR-laser-equipped belt-feds.
A pistol would be enough for self-defense, and every pound of gun you can ditch is an extra pound of food, water, commo, med gear, or other more generally useful tools you can carry.
Now, if our brave hero finds a functioning community and takes a job as a security guard, it's a whole different ball game. Then we can bust out the NVGs and IR-laser-equipped belt-feds.
Tod,
You said you've already armed the protagonist. I note you don't specify the gender of the protagonist or the rifle.
Are you going to keep us in suspense for a little while longer?
Or will we have to read the book?
I'm hoping to find out after the suspense has built a little bit more....
-Douglas
You said you've already armed the protagonist. I note you don't specify the gender of the protagonist or the rifle.
Are you going to keep us in suspense for a little while longer?
Or will we have to read the book?
I'm hoping to find out after the suspense has built a little bit more....
-Douglas
there are rules to gun fights
1. bring a gun
2. bring friends with guns
3. bring a long gun.
a pistol is only good to fight your way to a rifle.
i would not want to be caught carrying a pistol VS a rifle unles at very close range, now or in post apocoyptic world.
You left out rule #0: Don't get in gunfights.
Sure, if I'm going to be wandering around Hollywood-land, I'll take two folding knives, two kukhris, to 1911s, a mini-Uzi, a PGO shotgun, and a can of beans.
In the real world, gunfights are not the primary issue to base your planning on. The real issues are staying hydrated, nutritiously fed, and healthy. There are problem-solving techniques for dealing with bad people that don't rely just on firepower. Diversion, negotiation, avoidance, flight, etc. If you're going to survive in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, you'll have to be clever enough to use those techniques too, because you'll need too much other junk to be hauling around a half case of .308.
Firepower enters the equation when you are part of a group large enough to allow people to specialize in skills. Then the mechanic gets to have his whole toolbox, the doctor gets his whole medical bag, and the gunnie gets his tac vest full of mags.
Sure, if I'm going to be wandering around Hollywood-land, I'll take two folding knives, two kukhris, to 1911s, a mini-Uzi, a PGO shotgun, and a can of beans.
In the real world, gunfights are not the primary issue to base your planning on. The real issues are staying hydrated, nutritiously fed, and healthy. There are problem-solving techniques for dealing with bad people that don't rely just on firepower. Diversion, negotiation, avoidance, flight, etc. If you're going to survive in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, you'll have to be clever enough to use those techniques too, because you'll need too much other junk to be hauling around a half case of .308.
Firepower enters the equation when you are part of a group large enough to allow people to specialize in skills. Then the mechanic gets to have his whole toolbox, the doctor gets his whole medical bag, and the gunnie gets his tac vest full of mags.
What rifle would I use? I would use my Remington M700 in .30-06. Its the only center fire rifle I own that will shoot well.
rule 0 doesn't mean crap when you cant avoid a gun fight.
again. you don't always have the ability to choose when and where you fight
again. you don't always have the ability to choose when and where you fight
Ian said:
This is true, to a certain degree. I once read Plato's Republic, mainly because I like dropping that fact into conversation to make myself sound smart (has yet to work). One interesting thing I realized from the text was that Plato's definition of the development of a civilized society was specialization. This stuck with me.
However, I suspect that in such a hypothetical post-apocalyptic world, specialization would be of limited capability and use. Mainly, I think, you want generalists; people who can perform any of a number of tasks with some degree of competence, although happening upon a true specialist (such as an ER doctor or paramedic; a skilled mechanic; or someone trained and experienced in small unit infantry combat) would be highly beneficial. Still, shouldn't everybody capable of using a gun be armed? Shouldn't everyone have, if supplies allow, at least a basic first aid kit with them? I believe the Marines say that, "Every Marine is a rifleman, first", or something to that end, a saying which sounds eminently practical in the situation described.
This is true, to a certain degree. I once read Plato's Republic, mainly because I like dropping that fact into conversation to make myself sound smart (has yet to work). One interesting thing I realized from the text was that Plato's definition of the development of a civilized society was specialization. This stuck with me.
However, I suspect that in such a hypothetical post-apocalyptic world, specialization would be of limited capability and use. Mainly, I think, you want generalists; people who can perform any of a number of tasks with some degree of competence, although happening upon a true specialist (such as an ER doctor or paramedic; a skilled mechanic; or someone trained and experienced in small unit infantry combat) would be highly beneficial. Still, shouldn't everybody capable of using a gun be armed? Shouldn't everyone have, if supplies allow, at least a basic first aid kit with them? I believe the Marines say that, "Every Marine is a rifleman, first", or something to that end, a saying which sounds eminently practical in the situation described.
The Heinlein quote! Ah, that brings back memories.
If I could, though, I would go back in time and ask him if he did not, in fact, mean, "Overspecialization is for insects."
If I could, though, I would go back in time and ask him if he did not, in fact, mean, "Overspecialization is for insects."
Ed Ames said:
Sure. Doesn't look like it's hurting their survival and proliferation rate, though.
though iv heard the quote. and agree to an extend there must be lines drawn. man should focus on basic survial skills. algabra is usesless when you dont know ho to operate an M240G and how to operate a M240 is no longer a big deal skill in a group.
while individual survival relies on jack of all trades, the atom bomb was not created by said jacks.
Indeed. Better to be proficient in a small set of skills than equally incompetant at everything. That said, there are some basic things everyone needs to know, like how to find and purify water, how to find and cook food, how to operate firearms, first aid, etc.
However it doesn't have much killing power, has a very limited range, a slow rate of fire, is very bulky, and not only requires two hands to operate but a considerable amount of strength in the upper body (i.e. good luck operating it if you are injured).
Notice that bring a long gun is #3. Long guns are heavy and bulky, especially if you are carrying other equipment. I'd rather take a pistol and a water filter than a long gun if the odds came down to that. You aren't going to be able to get in a gun fight in the first place if you die from contracting dysentary.
those are not exlusionary. if so it would be
1. Bring a gun (any gun, better than a knife)
2. Bring friends with guns ( better tahn bein alone)
3. Bring a long gun ( better than a pistol)
then wayyyy down the list. some where between
Bring the womens auxileraly buggle corp
and
Bring the troop 77 cub scouts
would be bring a pistol over a rifle.
I don't think you get my point. There is no sense in bringing a long gun if it is going to force you to dump other critical equipment, after all you can't win a gunfight if you are flat on your back from fever or frozen to death.
My rifle of choice would be whatever I took off the last guy.
A man alone, with no base or place to stockpile supplies is kind of boned in these situations. Civilization is pretty much built around the concept that surviving is a lot harder on your own than in a group. No matter how bad ashed you are, no matter how hardcore, sooner or later there's somebody that sees a good ROI on trying to take your stuff. And sooner of later stopping someone from taking your stuff is going to get violent. And sooner or later that violence isn't going to go your way, especially if you're always fighting at long odds to begin with.
So were it me, I'd be spending as little time as possible scavenging and as much time as possible getting to someplace where I could defend, make friends, form a tribe. Point A to Point B, as quickly as possible. During the journey I'd start out with a shotgun, critical supplies and a really cautious attitude. Peacable with all men, but someone gets froggy, Mr. Boomstick asks them to sit down, and escorts them to their seat if required. After such an escort my favorite gun is anything they were carrying that they had a decent amount of ammo for. I'm not deviating from my line of travel to scrounge in darkened, ambush ready WalMarts looking for 12 gauge shells. If the opportunity arising to work/barter for more, then great. Otherwise, as the need arises, I'll just acquire what I need from people that cause me trouble. Either that or it won't matter.
Or at least the would be my attitude if I were in that situation.
A man alone, with no base or place to stockpile supplies is kind of boned in these situations. Civilization is pretty much built around the concept that surviving is a lot harder on your own than in a group. No matter how bad ashed you are, no matter how hardcore, sooner or later there's somebody that sees a good ROI on trying to take your stuff. And sooner of later stopping someone from taking your stuff is going to get violent. And sooner or later that violence isn't going to go your way, especially if you're always fighting at long odds to begin with.
So were it me, I'd be spending as little time as possible scavenging and as much time as possible getting to someplace where I could defend, make friends, form a tribe. Point A to Point B, as quickly as possible. During the journey I'd start out with a shotgun, critical supplies and a really cautious attitude. Peacable with all men, but someone gets froggy, Mr. Boomstick asks them to sit down, and escorts them to their seat if required. After such an escort my favorite gun is anything they were carrying that they had a decent amount of ammo for. I'm not deviating from my line of travel to scrounge in darkened, ambush ready WalMarts looking for 12 gauge shells. If the opportunity arising to work/barter for more, then great. Otherwise, as the need arises, I'll just acquire what I need from people that cause me trouble. Either that or it won't matter.
Or at least the would be my attitude if I were in that situation.
Exactly.
These questions are always rather less than practical, because (apart from being exceedingly unlikely in the first place) everyone's specific situation is different. Are you bugging out 5 miles from your office to home? Are you hopping in the truck to bug out 500 miles to "the mountains"? Do you have a stocked cabin there? An unstocked one? A cabin shared with friends/relatives/strangers? Do you have enough gas to make it, or are you expecting to have to hike the last X miles? Will jammed roads cause you to run out of gas earlier than you expect? Did you make it to some sort of retreat, but then were forced to abandon it for some reason?
Someone who's "plan" is to take the armor, tac vest, and MBR and "rough it" in the woods for an indeterminate time has already failed for lack of a real plan. The absolute most essential step in bugging out is to have a plan (and hopefully several backup plans). Then build your gear list around your plan.
If New York has turned into a new Mogadishu and I need to move from a compromised shelter uptown to a fortified, stocked compound downtown - then heck yeah, I'll go nuts on mall ninja gear. Short trip, supplies waiting at the end, primary danger is loonies with machine guns...firepower is a top priority.
OTOH, if it's some deserted post-plague wasteland and my safe commune has been burned to the ground and I have to get into the next state with only what I can carry, I'm gonna eschew the heavy metal. I might get ambushed and might be killed by bad guys, but I'm guaranteed a fairly quick death without decent shelter, warm clothing (and spares to replace things that get wet), water purification, food, and other miscellaneous stuff. I'll have to carry all that stuff not for a couple hours, but for weeks on end and probably across all sorts of nasty terrain. Being alert would be a constant necessity, and that dictates a light load. No point carrying 20 extra pounds of weaponry if it makes you too tired to notice the ambush you're about to walk into.
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