Antique Firearms Definitions

[gyvel]

(16) The term "antique firearm" means -
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system)
manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if
such replica -
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition
which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which
is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial
trade;

Some years ago I seem to remember that Siamese Mausers were classified as "exempt" from the provisions of the GCA of '68 due to the highlighted portion of the above cited excerpt from 18USC, this being due to the fact that no ammo was available for them, and in spite of the fact that they were made ca. 1903.

Is this provision of the law still viable? Or did BATF issue one of their incessant "rulings" to change it?

 

[Sunray]

Read this. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/siammauser/index.asp

 

[Cosmoline]

To illustrate the distinction between the two definitions of antique firearm under the GCA and NFA, a rifle manufactured in or before 1898 would be an antique firearm under the provisions of the GCA, even though it uses conventional ammunition. However, if such rifle has a barrel of less than 16 inches in length AND uses conventional fixed ammunition which is available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, it would not be an antique firearm under the NFA.

An antique firearm as defined in both the GCA and NFA is exempt from all of the provisions and restrictions contained in both laws. Consequently, such an antique firearm may be bought, sold, transported, shipped, etc., without regard to the requirements of these laws.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/cnrfaq/index3.asp

 

[gyvel]

Read this. http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...user/index.asp

Sunray: Thanks for the historical link; The Thais were still using these weapons when I was stationed there in the late 1960s.

However, this doesn't answer my question, unless I missed something in the link.

Cosmoline: Your excerpt from 18USC is in regards to cartridge arms with less than 16" barrels (such as a Winchester "Trapper" Model), and also does not answer my question.

 

[EOD Guy]

The bolded part of the regulation quoted only applies to replicas of antique firearms. If a firearm was manufactured after 1898, it would not qualify as an antique even if no ammunition was available for it.

 

[husbandofaromanian]

Ya'll are out of date.

Antique Firearms

Updated: 7/22/05
As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means—
…(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica --
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which
is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not
readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol,
which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which
cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term
'antique firearm' shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm
frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading
weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire
fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any
combination thereof.
ATF has previously determined that certain muzzle loading models are firearms and
subject to the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). All of these guns
incorporate the frame or receiver of a firearm that is capable of accepting other barrels
designed to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition. Therefore, these
muzzle loading models do not meet the definition of “antique firearm” as that term is
defined in the above-cited § 921(a)(16) and are “firearms” as defined in 18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(3)
Furthermore, as firearms, the models described above, as well as other similar models, regardless
of installed barrel type, are subject to all provisions of the GCA. Persons who purchase these
firearms from licensed dealers are required to fill out ATF Form 4473 and are subject to a
National Instant Background Check System (NICS) check. Convicted felons and certain other
persons are prohibited from receiving and possessing these firearms.

You can now have an antique firearm with an "Electronic Ignition" or any other type of modern primer.

 

[EOD Guy]

All that is true but what does it have to do with the original post?

 

[Shadow 7D]

The end all seems to be that the ATF designates them as being antique, it could have been convenience as the rifle was produced over a period of time and production began before 1898.

 

[Oyeboten]

These 'laws' all seems really confused and irrational to me.


Just what did they imagine "1898" had going for it, to be THE year they'd pick?

Yeeeeeesh...the stupidity is painful.


Is my made in 1974 Uberti 'Walker' an 'Antique Firearm' then? owing to it being a Percussion Revolver? Or is it simply a Percussion Revolver?

These absurd proferings of inane postures of 'law' create far more problems and expenses than they solve, or, are worth.


What 'Receivers' that go from Muzzle Loading to Center-fire Metallic Cartridge via 'Barrel changes', are they talking about, anyway?

 

[deadin]

What 'Receivers' that go from Muzzle Loading to Center-fire Metallic Cartridge via 'Barrel changes', are they talking about, anyway?

Things like some of the modern "inline" ML's that you can swap the barrel out for a cartridge barrel. (I think H&R has one.)
I know it's not exactly covered in the wording, but I wonder when they are going to decide that the "cartridge conversion" cylinders are going to be put in the same bucket. This would pull most of the C&B revolvers out of antique status.

Just what did they imagine "1898" had going for it, to be THE year they'd pick?

Well, they had to pick something. It just might have something to do with being 70 years prior to GCA '68. There have been arguments that the "antique" date should float like the C&R date. (50 years old and older.)

BTW,

The end all seems to be that the ATF designates them as being antique, it could have been convenience as the rifle was produced over a period of time and production began before 1898.

It doesn't work that way. The gun in question has to have been manufactured prior to 1899 to be considered an antique. That's why you need to use serial number lists on guns produced on each side of 12/31/1898.
Example: A '94 Winchester made in January 1899 is NOT considered an antique while one made in December 1898 is...... Go figure.

 

[husbandofaromanian]

All that is true but what does it have to do with the original post?

The original post had an outdated quote of the definition of an antique firearm.
To me, it is very significant that we can now have a muzzle loading weapon that is NOT a replica of any older firearm that can use 209 primer or any other modern ignition.
Although my post was not directly on target with the original post, it was DIRECTLY on target with the TITLE of the original post.

 

[Sam1911]

What 'Receivers' that go from Muzzle Loading to Center-fire Metallic Cartridge via 'Barrel changes', are they talking about, anyway?

T/C Contenders and Encores can take muzzle-loading barrels, and you can buy them already set up as a muzzle-loader. But they still have to be transferred as a Title I firearm because they are very easily converted to fire modern cartridge ammunition.

-Sam