Any firearm can be used self-defense in a pinch. Do you agree?

[Jim Watson]

For one or even a couple of assailants, about anything would work. A man hit with an elk rifle or a goose gun has been very thoroughly shot.

Jeff Cooper wrote of the Latin American villas with a gate guard armed with a single shot shotgun. He figured the idea was it was enough to deter or defeat the petty punk but if he sold out to organized crime, he would not be much of an additional threat.

while the gun had two immediate shots, and internal "auto"-cocked hammers, reloading was slow since you had to pluck out the empties.

CAS does not allow ejector doubles - even though they allow 1897 pumps - so we have our chambers polished and learn the jerk on opening that usually throws out the empties.

 

[bearcreek]

This is not a legitimate question to me.

Someone's going to.try to kill me? I'll use whatever resource I have.

It is a bit of an odd question because the answer is so obvious. Any firearm, in any condition, operational or not, loaded or not, can be used for self defense, just like any stick, rock, blade, frying pan, grenade, pen, pencil, ruler, bomb, rope, telephone, coffee mug, wrench, newspaper, flower vase, etc. etc. etc. can be used for self defense.

 

[pharmer]

I have an H&R 88 SS 12 ga. It would make a mess of an intruder. Have a couple extra cartridges between the fingers of the off hand and you can reload in about a second with practice. Joe

 

[Boattale]

Hello? Who's there?

 

[Miami_JBT]

It is a bit of an odd question because the answer is so obvious. Any firearm, in any condition, operational or not, loaded or not, can be used for self defense, just like any stick, rock, blade, frying pan, grenade, pen, pencil, ruler, bomb, rope, telephone, coffee mug, wrench, newspaper, flower vase, etc. etc. etc. can be used for self defense.

Some people think you need the latest tacticool load out.

 

[Smokin Gator]

I did read in a recent American Rifleman about a guy who shot one of three criminals in a home invasion attempt with a muzzle loader. He critcally wounded the one attacker while the other 2 ran off. It said he closed the door then called police so apparently they got through the door. Still investigating the incident.

 

[bearcreek]

Some people think you need the latest tacticool load out.

You don't need anything.....till you do.

 

[jstert]

Hello? Who's there?
View attachment 1204023

i have a sibling under my bed upstairs with #5 gameshot on tap. i can run it fast.

stashed one each heritage roughrider loaded with cci stingers at the apartments of my late mom and late aunt. i stayed with each one alot while they were living and i was happy enough. they could use it in a pinch too but their environments were benign. they and their hrr handguns are departed now. even if all i have is a single-action revolver, due to infirmity, disinterest, poverty or circumstances, i could make it work.

 

[herrwalther]

I'll take any firearm for self or home defense before anything else. Even an air rifle. But I will take the best I can legally and financially afford. As laws become more restrictive, your selection does too. When the SAFE act passed, my grandfather sold all his firearms (three heirloom quality rifles) rather than sift through the legal ease to see if they were legally allowed or not. In that act he took away all his means of self defense. Oh and he lived about 5 minutes away from where that prison break in Dannemora happened.

 

[OS/N]

The first couple rounds are for defense. The rest are for peace of mind. If it makes you feel good and is legal, have at it.

The best firearm is the one you have in your hand when needed. If it can't do the job with one correctly placed round something better maybe needed.

 

[Snidely70431]

When he was the New York City Police Commissioner, Theodore Roosevelt standardized the department's use of the Colt New Police revolver. The cartridge was then adopted by several other northeastern U.S. police departments.[4] The .32 Long is well known as an unusually accurate cartridge. This reputation led Police Commissioner Roosevelt to select it as an expedient way to increase officers' accuracy with their revolvers in New York City. The Colt company referred to the .32 S&W Long cartridge as the .32 "Colt's New Police" cartridge, concurrent with the conversion of the Colt New Police revolver from .32 Long Colt.

Apparently, he considered this a satisfactory self defense weapon.

 

[drobs]

A frequent question on various black powder forums is... "Can I use my BP revolver for self defense?"
I would say yes but have 2 of them loaded with cap, black powder and ball. If one doesn't go bang switch to the other.

Back in 2001, when I lived in Illinois, I already had a bunch of defensive firearms and a FOID card. However, the 1st black powder revolver I bought was a 44 cal Pietta 1858 Remington percussion revolver. I had no intention at the time of shooting it with black powder. I bought it to prove a point to myself that you could still assemble a working cartridge revolver through the mail without needing to go through a FFL or have a state firearms license.

I found a company that ships BP revolvers to all states, no matter their laws. I found another company that would ship a cartridge conversion cylinder directly to me.
I assembled a working 45 Colt cartridge revolver all shipped through the mail. The action was gritty but it shot and hit paper just fine.

It wasn't till about 15 years later that I shot it with black powder, cap, and ball.


Now days, the "Ghost Gun" Polymer 80 Glock clones are the way to go if you want to assemble a working semi-auto cartridge gun bought through the mail. Legislation has caught up with them. But there was a window.



What about ammo? You can load your own ammo without needing the services of a FFL. You could also take a road trip to a free state and buy ammo.

In free states, the private sale of firearms is still unregulated, and that is the place to look when the gun shop shelves are empty.

 

[Jim Watson]

Something I have wondered.
Teddy Roosevelt was NYC police commissioner 1895-1896 when he standardized the department on the Colt New Police .32 caliber.
The .32 S&W Long came out in 1896.
So did Colt IMMEDIATELY dub it the .32 Colt New Police for their lineup, or were the police carrying .32 Long Colts?

 

[Mosin77]

I love the old, classic American sporting arms. If I couldn’t grab something tacticool, I really do not think I’d be undergunned with a Stevens 311a 16g double, or a Remington tube fed bolt action .22. My .44-40 Uberti would do as well for me as it did for a character in a Louis L’Amour novel. Plenty of milsurps survived a couple of world wars…. A day of self defense duty would be nothing for them. The only problem there is logistics: Do I have any 7.65 Argentine or stripper clips that fit? Gotta go down to the basement and check.

I’d also not feel particularly undergunned with a flintlock pistol. Mine has a .69 cal bore, so at least for the first guy at point blank range, it would probably stop the threat.

 

[1nighttrain]

I remember reading about a man using his wife broom handle as a makeshift weapon, he cradled it in his arms like he was holding a long gun. This was during the LA riots in 92.

From what I remember he stood on his porch as the gangs of people were destroying the neighborhood along with his neighbors houses. His bluff worked his home was not damaged.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I've seen people use scoped lever and bolt action rifles in multi-day defensive rifle classes.

Their splits on multi-shot strings were slower than those who used EBRs. Their reloads were slower. Getting the rifle on target from a ready position, especially for close-in bad guys, was slower.

But, with instruction and practice, they got better. In some cases, a lot better.

I've done handgun courses with a revolver, and defensive shotgun courses with pumpers. I was slower than with autoloaders. But with instruction and practice, I got better.

Clearly, a defender can successfully use less-than-optimal tools. But the more they practice with their chosen tool, whatever it is, the higher their confidence and chance of success will be.

 

[KyJim]

Any gun is better than no gun. For that reason, persons who cannot legally own modern firearms may be able to own "antique" firearms under federal law. This basically means muzzle loaders that cannot be readily converted to a more modern gun. But anyone should look at the full ATF definition. See ATF document starting a page two. The guns do not necessarily have to be old. However, be aware that some states will not allow convicted felons, etc. to own "antique" firearms under state law.

 

[GEM]

Yep, any gun that will fire one shot reliably may work for one opponent that you actually hit. Then the hit either incapacitates the opponents or convinces said opponent to stop what ever he or she is doing. So that's that for the OP. A musket, a BP gun, a single shot 22S kid's rifle, whatever.

The issue is when the incident is more intense than that. You need extra shots for various reasons. Then the vagaries of mechanism come into play. My opinion is an empirical test - run a match or training class with your 'whatever' gun. I've been in 360 shoot houses with a double barrel shotgun, a box of shells you carried and multiple opponents. Interesting. I've seen folks run IDPA like carbine courses with lever guns or bolt guns. Yep, it might work. Folks did fight with the older weapons in the past. Folks also got from East to West coast on sailing ships that went around South America.

Thus, the answer is unless there are some constraining circumstances, time to drop the COSplay for realistic applications.

Scranton Joe is all for shooting your double barrel in the air or through the door at the Door Dash guy who got lost.

 

[Jim Watson]

I've seen people use scoped lever and bolt action rifles in multi-day defensive rifle classes.

Their splits on multi-shot strings were slower than those who used EBRs. Their reloads were slower. Getting the rifle on target from a ready position, especially for close-in bad guys, was slower.

Mike Venturino said that he was seldom inconvenienced shooting a lever action in with autos. They weren't doing 20 round magazine dumps and while the others were periodically picking up and refilling magazines, he was just shoving rounds in the tube out of his coat pocket at every "lull in the action."

However, be aware that some states will not allow convicted felons, etc. to own "antique" firearms under state law.

That can apply to about anything you are deemed to carry "for the purpose of going armed." As one instructor said, if you have a baseball bat, be sure you have a glove and ball along.

 

[luzyfuerza]

Mike Venturino said that he was seldom inconvenienced shooting a lever action in with autos.

Mike is a great example of a shooter who has put in the work to extract every bit of performance out of older tech like lever action rifles and single action revolvers. Mike dropped from the same mold as the shooters who I observed in the classes who chose to learn to use the older hardware.


By contrast, the OP refers to a situation where two inmates escaped and he recalled

...news stories about area residents arming themselves with anything and everything that had a went bang. Hunting rifles, single-shot shotguns, rimfire plinkers, etc...

This photo was from the New York Times and it shows a Dannemora resident grabbing his two bolt action hunting rifles. The news story reported that he staged one in the upstairs bedroom and another in the living room.

And then the OP embarked on a discussion of the hardware in his safe. Not once did he mention his specific skills with the hardware he owns.

The same is true for most (but not all) of the posts in this thread. (Exceptions, posts by: @bearcreek , @Creaky_Old_Cop , @FL-NC , @jstert ...)


So many think that just owning a gun protects them. Training and practice turn a talisman into a tool.

 

[Sistema1927]

Anything is better than nothing. I wouldn't want to face me carrying my .44 ROA, or even my .36 1862 for that matter.

 

[Bazoo]

I certainly believe that any gun can be used in a pinch, and any repeater is better than any single shot. If you take ARs and other tactical types off the table, it's hard to beat a lever action such as a Marlin 1894, Winchester 92, or 94 for self defense.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Mike is a great example of a shooter who has put in the work to extract every bit of performance out of older tech like lever action rifles and single action revolvers. Mike dropped from the same mold as the shooters who I observed in the classes who chose to learn to use the older hardware.


By contrast, the OP refers to a situation where two inmates escaped and he recalled





And then the OP embarked on a discussion of the hardware in his safe. Not once did he mention his specific skills with the hardware he owns.

The same is true for most (but not all) of the posts in this thread. (Exceptions, posts by: @bearcreek , @Creaky_Old_Cop , @FL-NC , @jstert ...)


So many think that just owning a gun protects them. Training and practice turn a talisman into a tool.

Hey, my skill is specifically mentioned in this thread and in others. I specifically train with revolvers, pumps, levers, etc... on top of the all the training taxpayer dollars funded me for all the ARs, GLOCKs, Berettas, etc that I carried in my professional career ad an agent of the government.

I can run a single-shot shotgun without any worry in a self-defense scenario and I've ran my through a Uncle Sam's shoot-house. Along with S&W and Colt revolvers, bolt-actions, etc...

In the OP of this thread, I stated the following:

Would I honestly feel safe with nothing but my 12 Gauge Browning BSS or my Remington Model 700 Moutain in .30-06 Springfield? Yeah, I'd feel safe. But the more important than the question of "would I feel safe?" It is would I actually be capable of defending myself and my loved ones with such arms? The answer to that is emphatically yes. I wouldn't be happy that I was restricted to such and I would see it as an egregious violation of my civil rights as an American. But I and confident that I could defend myself with such class of guns.

The reader should be able to get the idea that I, the original poster is confident in my skills to handle such guns.

In fact, in numerous threads here. I say it is the Indian, not the arrow.

That's me running my S&W Model 686 through a course specifically designed for automatAutomatics.



Here's me doing the same with a S&W Model 27.

 

[KyJim]

That can apply to about anything you are deemed to carry "for the purpose of going armed." As one instructor said, if you have a baseball bat, be sure you have a glove and ball along.

You're right about that. I had a case once where a man was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon when he threw a glass ashtray and hit the victim in the head and caused a serious injury. But I don't see police arresting anyone for carrying a concealed ash tray, etc. Another case I had, a BB shot into the skull of the victim was considered a deadly weapon (victim lived).

 

[Kleanbore]

If it can't do the job with one correctly placed round something better maybe needed.

Of course, that "on correctly placed round" will, in a self defense situation, by almost entirely a matter of luck. The defender cannot see the internal parts of the body that must be struck, and if he could, he would find it extremely difficult to hit in a dynamic encounter,