Anyone had one of these?

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hoji:

Just curious: has anyone ever been threatened with asset forfeiture for refusing to fill out a census form?

And for the record, I have no problem filling out the information in the regular census as it relates to congressional districts (e.g. number of people in household and ages). I have never - and will never - submit information that has nothing to do with the regular census & congressional districting.
 
I Would Oppose This Survey...

...on constitutional grounds that would include Article I, and the 4th and 5th amendments. One, it is not reasonable. Two, it doesn't come with a warrant specifying any probable cause of wrong-doing. Third, it could be self incriminating. Fourth, it would be the taking of my private property(information) without just compensation. Fifth, any power beyond the enumeration required in Article I, Section 2, Clause (3) is a usurpation. All this makes the "survey" unconstitutional.

Woody

"I pledge allegiance to the rights that made and keep me free. I will preserve and defend those rights for all who live in this, the country founded on the belief and principles that those rights are inalienable and essential to the pursuit and preservation of life, liberty, and happiness." B.E.Wood
 
Yes.
We have albeit a veiled threat via third party. If you cannot pay the CIVIL fines, then asset forfeiture would be the route they would go to force compliance.
 
I'm genuinely curious, hoji:

1. Has anyone ever had to pay a fine for refusing to fill out part or all of a census form? (Cite requested.)

2. Has anyone ever been threatened with or undergone asset forfeiture for refusing to fill out a census form? (Cite requested.)
 
Could not tell you.Can only tell you of MY experience with them, and what our lawyer{s} advised. We went with their advice.
Do whatever you feel is appropiate. Hope you have tens of thousands to spend on it.
 
So we would have to repeal

Article 13 in order to stop this? I am not all that knowledgable of what is required here. But I will start investigating.
 
While I agree with others here that the Feds probably don't have any constitutional authority to make hoji report all this stuff, they don't HAVE to be right to ruin someone's life. If I were living by myself and could make a hobby out of it, I could take a stand on a lot of things I think are wrong. The way it is, I have to support my family and put my kids through college. The Federal government could hire O.J.'s dream team of lawyers to push a thing like this. It's only our money they're spending, so cost is no object.
If one guy decides to stand up to crap like this, and they decide to make an example out of him, or he just hits the wrong government drone, years of his life can be made hellish, and thousands of dollars can evaporate. If a thousand people take a stand, they won't come out much better. Look at the IRS. A lot of people are getting angry about government interference though. The day is coming when hundreds of thousands of people are going to tell them to piss up a rope, and when that day comes, things are going to start changing for the better. The people will find out that THEY are the government, we HIRE government workers to work for US, and professional politicians will take note of how to keep their jobs.
There's gonna be a day...
Marty
 
Well, to resist this questionaire, you'll have to be a little bit of an *******. Like George Washington or William Travis. Basically, somebody stupid enough and ornery enough to refuse to do the obviously smart thing and just go along with it. The colonists were so pissed off about having soldiers quartered in their homes or whatever that they were willing to fight a war against the greatest military power that had ever existed. Travis was so stiff-necked that he decided to stay and fight at the Alamo despite the fact that there was no chance he could win. You've got to have people like that or the whole place will turn into a concentration camp. On the other hand, the smart people listen to their lawyers and let some other sucker take the lumps.
 
I'd like to see *** questions are on this survey, but no way in heck am I gonna hit that url and let them get my isp number. Nope, not me.
 
Thanks Bumm.
I get so sick of people saying what they WOULD do IF they got one. If I were single and had the spare time to live on friend's couches I would take the time to do what a homeless friend of mine did when the IRS sent a threatening letter to his PO box over $63 in unpaid taxes.{ he actually filed on his day labor earnings for a year} He told them he lived under a bridge and they were welcome to seize his assets. They forgave the debt.
I however am not homeless, and do not care to have that aggrevation.
How many of you who are claiming you would tell the government to pound sand have concealed carry permits?
 
Thanks Bumm.
I get so sick of people saying what they WOULD do IF they got one. If I were single and had the spare time to live on friend's couches I would take the time to do what a homeless friend of mine did when the IRS sent a threatening letter to his PO box over $63 in unpaid taxes.{ he actually filed on his day labor earnings for a year} He told them he lived under a bridge and they were welcome to seize his assets. They forgave the debt.
I however am not homeless, and do not care to have that aggrevation.
How many of you who are claiming you would tell the government to pound sand have concealed carry permits?
Click to expand...
No kidding... And surely you noticed the poster who's too scared to click on the link! No irony on this thread, eh? (The way it was written, I don't think it was sarcasm or parody. And to the poster who seems to be scared of his own shadow, there are sites that allow you to surf anonymously, although I don't think you deserve to be informed of that. :banghead: )
 
OK; what Molon Labe said. This is a trial balloon, and if enough people just say no - it won't fly.

Historically, all (that I know of) despotic regimes begin this way. One step at a time. They do not suddenly unveil themselves one day and then begin open ruthless oppression.

If I reduce my citizenship to that of a slave, cowed into producing my life history, personal activities, medical, employment, financial details, daily routine etc under the threat of a fine; what exactly will I not do, or turn a blind eye to - under a far more severe penalty or threat?

----------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
How many of you have Concealed Carry Permits? A question was asked."Who has gotten one of these?" I have and I chose the method that would cause me the least amount of unwanted intrusion,after mind you of ignoring the first 4 of these they sent, and after consulting an attorney.
I chose the lesser of two evils.Much like all of you who voted for George"I am in favor of the assault weapons ban" Bush. Much like all of you who have driver's licenses{you had to give a biometric fingerprint in most states to get it} Same with carry permits,hunting licenses, and pre employment drug screening. How many of you are AOK with letting a complete stranger sample your bodily fluids?
Again, I was POed to the nth degree about the "survey" but chose not to invite "more" big government into our life.
 
hoji:


Or you're just on the sucker list now. And there's no comparison to CCW permits or driver's licenses. The CCW permit has been a step in the right direction, not a surrender of anything that preceded it. This colonoscopic questionaire is brand new.
 
Step in the right direction huh?
By getting a CHL you have in effect registered with the government as a gun owner. Don't believe me? When your license plate is run the CHL info comes back, LEOs know that you are probably armed before you even pull over. Furthermore by getting a CHL you are begging permission from government to carry a gun AND paying them for the privilige to do so.
Anyway you can be as brave and tough as you want, if you have never gotten a survey. When you get one and are threatened with being fined 50,000 plus, come back and tell me how brave you are.
 
Guys, I was serious. This thread is not going well. You all agree on what should be done, and I presume no one is ignorant of reality here, either. So why can't we have a polite discussion of how you find the balance between those two ends of the spectrum? Why does it have to be a choice between woolly anarchist and sheep?

I think we've gotten about all the value out of this thread that we're going to get. I'm going to close it now. I know that will disappoint some, and I'm sorry.
 
Guys, please heed Mr Gwinn; it is imperative this intrusive outrage is stopped before it sets yet another precedence and becomes "norm" in the minds of too many people.

I would urge everyone to forward the link to as many other applicable online forums, newsletters, newsgroups etc as possible. I think there are a great many people who are completely unaware of it - as I was until the article was forwarded to me by another party.

Medula Oblongata
I received one of "these" last year. I wrote a letter describing my all consuming rage at having received it, my utter contempt for it and its authors, and placed the note with the uncompleted form in its postage-paid envelope and returned it to the sender. I got a couple of nasty letters, a butt-hole at my doorstep, and eventually another letter saying I had been "forgiven" of the reponsibility to answer the governments questions.
Click to expand...
Your spine is showing. I like that.

And despite the inconvenience and stress, well worth it. If even half the recipients of these administrative crimes did the same thing, the whole program would die a natural death.

I hope you kept the "forgiveness" letter - they may be invaluable to others in court or other persecutions. Any way you could scan and post it minus your personal details? You could make a xerox copy, white out your personal stuff on the copy before scanning it.

------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I just got my American Community Survey (1/3/07). It looks like they are not doing them all at once.:scrutiny:
The info given, if answered honstly, will tell a lot about you, personally; income, mortgage, interest and dividend income, etc. It's not just about plumbing and number of occupants.
I chose to answer on the advise of my legal consultant; the fines can run very high, indeed.:mad:
I also will be writing my congressman about this, with a follow-up phone call.

rick
 
Here, hypothetically, is what might happen if you get one and don't answer it:

- You might get a follow-up letter.

- If you ignore the survey and the follow-up letter, you might get a phone call.

- If you ignore the survey and the follow-up letter, and don't answer the phone, you might get another phone call.

- If you continue to screen your phone calls, they might keep calling weekly for a couple months.

- If you never answer the phone, they might just stop calling.

All this is purely hypothetical, of course.
 
Hoji
I can see where you're coming from as far as asset forfiture. I'm glad our forfathers didn't put property before principle, but I still (kind of) see your point:rolleyes: . I however rent my house, filled with thrift store furniture, and have a $500.00 Astro van(all thanks to my EX-wife). Catch me on a bad day and I just might hand deliver the blank form back to them. And to quote Biker "somebody's gonna need a hug" after I leave:cuss:

Josh
 
Haven't gotten this one (yet) I have the third notice on another one. There were more (mild) threats in it. Mainly "we will continue to send you notices and call you until you answer the questions"
Heck they get paid by the hour and I figure I am preventing them from bothering anyone else.
 
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