I don't know if the current aftermarket AR sights will be properly regulated to match the height of the SU-16's rail. I do know that one person who's working on a SU-16 mount to accept the AR front sight is also looking into a rear mount to accept the A2.
Anyone is Cali order a SU-16
- Thread starter 45R
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DrDremel
Member
I must be the only guy that was not impressed. A friend bought one and we took it to the range. The biod is flimsy at best, the sights are up to paintball standards and the takedown pin is not built to last. This is not a .32 and people are going to actually want to shoot their rifle more than once to see if it works. If I had to choose between this rifle and any other .223, this one would be dead last.
lunde
Member
Being (trapped) in California, our options are severely limited, and the Kel-Tec offering is the only semi-auto .223 available that accepts AR-15 mags. Sure, there are some things that I'd like to change on the SU-16, such as the sights (putting the EOTech on it solves that), having the bipod lock in the extended position (or at least some detent that keeps it open), and maybe having the Picatinny rail be steel (as opposed to being part of the polymer receiver). The Bipod worked well for me, and the fact that it doesn't move or otherwise rattle when folded is a big plus, which means that if you don't want to use the bipod, simply don't deploy it. The polymer used for the receiver seems to be very strong and durable. I am actually not concerned about the Picatinny rail being part of the receiver, as it appears to be durable. Only time will tell how truly durable these things are. For $500, it seems like a good rifle, especially for those in California.
V
VictorLouis
Guest
Just how many factory 10rd. mags come with it?
Is the entire front sight of plastic, or just the blade/post within the aperture? What keeps it upright, or prevents it from twisting around the barrel?
If it's ALL plastic, does it look like it could sustain even a minor bump in the field.
Ditto the rear?
Is the bolt riding on any sort of steel insert in the receiver, or steel on plastic?
There does not appear to be any sort of manual bolt-release/hold-open, correct?
Where is the recoil spring located?
Thanks!
Is the entire front sight of plastic, or just the blade/post within the aperture? What keeps it upright, or prevents it from twisting around the barrel?
If it's ALL plastic, does it look like it could sustain even a minor bump in the field.
Ditto the rear?Is the bolt riding on any sort of steel insert in the receiver, or steel on plastic?
There does not appear to be any sort of manual bolt-release/hold-open, correct?
Where is the recoil spring located?
Thanks!
lunde
Member
VictorLouis, you wrote:
Two. Additional mags are $15 a pop fro Kel-Tec. They seem to be well made.
The front sight assembly is made of polymer.
Apparently, it's pressed in place and loc-tited.
Dunno. Given that it's loc-tited in place, it would probably break before it moves.
Although it's small and made of polymer, it seems to be durable.
Steel on polymer. The inserts are near the front of the upper receiver, for the barrel.
Correct. I stick a finger into the magazine well to engage the hold-open, which is normally engaged by the magazine follower when the magazine is empty. There is no external bolt release, though.
Inside of the gas tube, which rides over the barrel.
V
VictorLouis
Guest
Thanks very much, Dr. K!
I wish everyone could be so detailed in their responses.
I know how hesitant we in the gun community were with Glocks and plastic. I hope the concerns are unfounded when it comes to the centerfire rifle, also.
I wish everyone could be so detailed in their responses.
I know how hesitant we in the gun community were with Glocks and plastic. I hope the concerns are unfounded when it comes to the centerfire rifle, also.
artherd
member
This almost seems like the rifle that Glock may have built.
But not coming from Glock, I'm waiting to see on it's reliability/durability.
Wonder if a 16" bbl version would work? I'm un-intrested in a front sight, an EOtech takes care of that.
Damn I wish we were allowed ARs in the PRK (it's absolute nonsence, the SU-16 and the AR-15 are practically the same, AR's just probally fair bit more rugged, more accurate, and has huge commonality of parts. Aargh!)
But not coming from Glock, I'm waiting to see on it's reliability/durability.
Wonder if a 16" bbl version would work? I'm un-intrested in a front sight, an EOtech takes care of that.
Damn I wish we were allowed ARs in the PRK (it's absolute nonsence, the SU-16 and the AR-15 are practically the same, AR's just probally fair bit more rugged, more accurate, and has huge commonality of parts. Aargh!)
Sven
Senior Member
Got mine last night - how the heck did you guys get the assembly pin in? The pin on mine (SN #008X) got about 90% in, but pushing it through the other side just wasn't going to happen.
The pin on mine (SN #008X) got about 90% in, but pushing it through the other side just wasn't going to happen.45R
Member
Think you answered your own question in a previous post
Just kidden. Hope you figure out how to get that pin in!!
Sven
Senior Member
I pushed with all of my weight (210 pounds). Looks like the pin is slightly out of alignment on the other side - almost as if I need to close the rifle a slight bit more for it to fit. That retaining spring is out of the way, Larry, I checked that.
I heard that an assembly pin fell out of an SU-16 at the SHOT show last year - I guess this is what happens when you get mad at the engineers for having a too small pin on Rev 1...
... seriously considering the pin someone mentioned on ktrange.com - here is the thread:
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=176
And here is their pin:
I heard that an assembly pin fell out of an SU-16 at the SHOT show last year - I guess this is what happens when you get mad at the engineers for having a too small pin on Rev 1...
... seriously considering the pin someone mentioned on ktrange.com - here is the thread:
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=176
And here is their pin:
Sven
Senior Member
OK I got it together. SWEET.
Went in from the other side, and used the plastic end of a screwdriver to get some leverage. The action feels surprisingly smooth when hand-cycling the bolt. Trigger break is relatively crisp (better than the Mini14) but the reset is a bit 'odd'. Nothing I can't learn.
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Obligatory pics - WARNING: I'm no Lunde or Volk.
Below is a picture of the SU-16 next to a Mini-14. This is the current "plinker to beat" in .223 - at least here in "post-ban" California. Note longer buttpad to trigger distance on SU-16 - definitely noticable when you shoulder the rifle:
Hi-Res
Integral bipod - as previously noted - does not rattle when attached. A little tough to get it off unless both sides detach simultaneously, but it's easy to learn. Watch your fingers when you are putting it back on.
Hi-Res
A view to a kill (of a semi-plastic guitar, anyhow):
Hi-Res
Thinking about a Zeiss Z-Point on the rail - got a solar cell on top, how cool is that? Costs almost as much as the SU-16, too.
This old Colt 20 Rounder stashes securely in the buttstock (or two SU-16 mags fit perfectly)
Hi-Res
You gotta admit, that barrel is just SCREAMING to be cut down to 16.5" or so.
Hi-Res
One for my liberal neighbors to stay up at night worrying about... esp. after the barrel is trimmed down and I get a slightly larger backpack:
Hi-Res
Fit and finish is what I would expect for what I paid ($440 + FFL fees), a bit of flashing here and there on the plastic, no big deal. I love my P32, and I'm starting to believe I'm going to love the SU-16 as well - time will tell.
Went in from the other side, and used the plastic end of a screwdriver to get some leverage. The action feels surprisingly smooth when hand-cycling the bolt. Trigger break is relatively crisp (better than the Mini14) but the reset is a bit 'odd'. Nothing I can't learn.
-
Obligatory pics - WARNING: I'm no Lunde or Volk.
Below is a picture of the SU-16 next to a Mini-14. This is the current "plinker to beat" in .223 - at least here in "post-ban" California. Note longer buttpad to trigger distance on SU-16 - definitely noticable when you shoulder the rifle:
Hi-Res
Integral bipod - as previously noted - does not rattle when attached. A little tough to get it off unless both sides detach simultaneously, but it's easy to learn. Watch your fingers when you are putting it back on.
Hi-Res
A view to a kill (of a semi-plastic guitar, anyhow):
Hi-Res
Thinking about a Zeiss Z-Point on the rail - got a solar cell on top, how cool is that? Costs almost as much as the SU-16, too.
This old Colt 20 Rounder stashes securely in the buttstock (or two SU-16 mags fit perfectly)
Hi-Res
You gotta admit, that barrel is just SCREAMING to be cut down to 16.5" or so.
Hi-Res
One for my liberal neighbors to stay up at night worrying about... esp. after the barrel is trimmed down and I get a slightly larger backpack:
Hi-Res
Fit and finish is what I would expect for what I paid ($440 + FFL fees), a bit of flashing here and there on the plastic, no big deal. I love my P32, and I'm starting to believe I'm going to love the SU-16 as well - time will tell.
DJ E.
Member
Sven-How hard do you think it would be to cut down the stock around 3/4-1"?
Sven
Senior Member
I dunno - I'm not qualified to cut down a barrel and would outsource this. Main concerns are:
1) Will the gas system be affected adversely by this?
2) Would you be comfortable without a front sight on there?
1) Will the gas system be affected adversely by this?
2) Would you be comfortable without a front sight on there?
DJ E.
Member
Hehe, sorry...I was talking more of shortening the LOP. Thanks.
There really isn't an easy way to shorten the LOP as the stock is hollow inside and the bosses that screw the two halves together are right at the end of the stock. Even the rubber buttplate is very thin, so no gains there.
It could be done, but would requre adding material at the end to stiffen and other tricks.
It could be done, but would requre adding material at the end to stiffen and other tricks.
DJ E.
Member
Hmmm, interesting...thanks larry.
Yeesh! Just fondled one in a local Kali store. Too plasticy for me, made my skin crawl. Reminded me of my Daisy.
Dealer said that only 1,000 were made to date, and that there was a backorder of about 20,000. Gonna take a while to get one, if I did want one. This guy already had deposits from nine different guys, even though it might take months for them to get in.
He also said to wait, that Kel-Tec was going to unveil a newer version at Shot Show. Dunno how accurate his info was, tho'. I think I'm gonna hold off for now anyways.
Dealer said that only 1,000 were made to date, and that there was a backorder of about 20,000. Gonna take a while to get one, if I did want one. This guy already had deposits from nine different guys, even though it might take months for them to get in.
He also said to wait, that Kel-Tec was going to unveil a newer version at Shot Show. Dunno how accurate his info was, tho'. I think I'm gonna hold off for now anyways.
Badger Arms
Member
Sven: I don't think so. If it is effected, you could SLIGHTLY enlarge the gas port with a reamer drill bit. That's such a small difference that it would only slightly lower the port pressure and MIGHT make the gun slightly less vigorous in extraction and ejection.
Why not remount the front sight? Personally, I'd put a scope on in front of the peep sight and keep both on the gun. Would make it easy to take the scope off in a fix and use the irons.
My friends SU broke a firing pin at about 300 rounds. He called Kel Tec and they sent him out two new updated (beefed up) firing pins at no charge.
The replacement ones were noticably different from the original. His SU was number 45X in number. They stated that they were aware that there was a problem.
Just thought I'd let you guys know. Maybe they will send you out spares if you ask---Oneshot
The replacement ones were noticably different from the original. His SU was number 45X in number. They stated that they were aware that there was a problem.
Just thought I'd let you guys know. Maybe they will send you out spares if you ask---Oneshot
Sven
Senior Member
My serial number is N008X - they did send me two new firing pins. Will post a comparison once I take it apart and replace the old pin.
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