Anyone prefer no tube extension on HD shotgun?

[ET]

I've only owned an 870 with a plus 2 extension. Works great for me just like that, but ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[WVfishguy]

I'm fine with my Partner Pump 18" with 5 + 1, no extensions needed. It handles very well at that length.
The PP is made in China with a thick, solid-steel receiver; a magnet attaches to every bit of this shotgun except the trigger group. I like all that steel.
Double action bars (et al) give me a safe feeling, especially since I actually practice with this gun while using buckshot and slugs (I prefer 12 pellet 00 buck over 9 pellet.
It's the best $180 I've ever spent on a new gun.

 

[oneounceload]

Gun becomes so muzzle heavy that my swing/point gets messed up. There is such a thing as too much weight out front

SOMEONE gets it! Good job

Simple to test - get a 2x4 or similar something in length (and hopefully weight) to your gun. Get an 8oz weight - attach it on what would be the stock end to simulate a butt cuff with ammo and try swinging it around. Then move it to the area where a side saddle would be and swing the gun, then at the muzzle end......

There is a noticeable difference in handling and responsiveness and it has nothing to do with upper body strength, but everything to do with fit and balance

 

[Ketsugo]

Indeed and that's just one of the reasons I own a Winchester Defender 1300 8 shot (7 +1).

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I never handled a Moss 930 before I got my SPX, so I don't know if the regular 930 would feel better for me. Doesn't matter, the SPX handles sweet and I feel pretty good about 9 rounds of 00 buck.

 

[btg3]

This afternoon, I cut a damaged full choke barrel down to 20" in preparation for a +3 mag extension on my Wingmaster. Before opening up the new +3 mag ext, I decided to put on the used +2 extension I had picked up at a garage sale.

I also had my 4+1 Express handy for a comparison. After swinging both guns empty, the 4+1 was indeed more to my liking. Further, after loading both mag tubes to capacity, the +2 is sufficiently to my DISliking that I will be returning the unopened +3 extension.

I've shot tactical shotugun matches several times this year and the swing weight of a mag extension would definitely hinder target acquisition and transition to subsequent targets. Another consideration is shooter performance degradation due to accelerated fatigue with a heavy swinging gun over the course of the day.

So, I'll continue to play around with the +2 extension, and perhaps see whether my score is better with a faster, lighter gun that may require an additional reload... or with a heavier, higher-capacity shotgun.

Games aside, my choice for home defense is 4+1 (no mag ext) with another 5 rounds on the butt cuff.

 

[Mike1234567]

MAYBE off-topic but... I'm hoping the Kel-Tec KSG proves to be reliable and sells for a reasonable price. Fifteen rounds in a lightweight 12ga bullpup is very appealing for HD.

 

[bushmaster1313]

No magazine extension needed here:



None needed here either:

 

[RMc]

Perhaps...

...this would be the perfect compromise to bring the 870's mag capacity even with the Mossberg 500.

Also a +1 extention provides a QD swivel point and avoids virtually all of the previously mentionred problems like:

1) Harder to take the gun down to clean.
2) Shells getting hung up at the extension/original magazine joint.
3) Too muzzle heavy.

My thick cover buckshot hunting guns are set up this way to give a 5 shot total with 3" small buckshot (00B) and big Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot. Yes the barrels are longer than the picture shown.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Extensi...tud-1-Shot-12-Gauge/productinfo/SGET-QDS-U-1/

 

[RMc]

Bushmaster1313:

The High Standard K-120, Riot 18-7 shotgun played a starring role in The Getaway with Steve McQueen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkLkPjVsQpQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDlNIPCirLk&feature=related

 

[bushmaster1313]

The High Standard K-120, Riot 18-7 shotgun played a starring role in The Getaway with Steve McQueen.

I thought it was THE starring role.

And although Ali Mcgraw was cute, my 18-7 (I sold the top one) still looks as good as the day it left the factory

 

[whalerman]

Practice reloading. That also gives you the option of responding with different types of ammo. If you've loaded up a magazine with a bunch of one type of ammo, you cannot change and go to slugs or back to buckshot. Rarely is this "combat" a situation where you empty your weapon as fast as you possibly can. Seek cover, reload with what you need.

 

[RMc]

I prefer no magazine tube extension for the following reasons:

1) Harder for me to take the gun down to clean.
2) More things to go wrong such as shells getting hung up at the extension interface.
3) Gun becomes so muzzle heavy that my swing/point gets messed up. There is such a thing as too much weight out front for me.

A one shot extention magazine does not complicate take down for magazine cleaning or installing a long field barrel and standandard magazine cap. The one shot extention also balances the "riot" barrel about the same as the field barrel.

 

[bubba in ca]

I had an 8 shot and didn't like the balance. I also have a fat-bullet revolver for backup, so my Mossberg with six shots seems just fine.
Most shotgun fights end with one shot. Concentrate on getting in the first good shot or 2. If a major firefight is part of your perceived risk scenario, get a carbine with 3 extra mags.

If you do splurge for a magazine extension, get a good one and make sure it is installed right. And an elastic butt cuff works great with less hassle and cost than the metal add-ons, just get a new one every few years as the elastic stretches. Elastic is good too if you have both left and right handed shooters using the gun.

 

[tactikel]

Agree with the idea that too much weight at the muzzle slows down swing, affects balance. My Moss 835 holds 3 rounds of 3.5" buckshot, my backup is a Springfield XD-45 with 13+1 of +P 185 gr JHPs on tap.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Simple to test - get a 2x4 or similar something in length (and hopefully weight) to your gun. Get an 8oz weight - attach it on what would be the stock end to simulate a butt cuff with ammo and try swinging it around. Then move it to the area where a side saddle would be and swing the gun, then at the muzzle end......

There is a noticeable difference in handling and responsiveness and it has nothing to do with upper body strength, but everything to do with fit and balance

I've found that with lighter guns that I over swing.

 

[NYH1]

I have a Remington 11-87 Sportsman Deer 12 ga. with the synthetic stock and fore-arm, 21" cantilever scope mount. I bought a 18.5" Police Barrel, 2 shot mag. ext. and a 6 shot side saddle. I took everything off of it to set it back up for deer hunting for the few times I'll hunt in a "slug gun only county". When I put it back to HD mode after the season, I'm putting the short barrel and the mag. ext. back on it. The side saddle isn't going back on. So yes, I like mag. ext.

NYH1.

 

[Justin]

SOMEONE gets it! Good job

Simple to test - get a 2x4 or similar something in length (and hopefully weight) to your gun. Get an 8oz weight - attach it on what would be the stock end to simulate a butt cuff with ammo and try swinging it around. Then move it to the area where a side saddle would be and swing the gun, then at the muzzle end......

There is a noticeable difference in handling and responsiveness and it has nothing to do with upper body strength, but everything to do with fit and balance

I'm not denying that there is a difference, or that a shotgun without a tube swings easier than one with a tube, I'm just not sure that an extension tube, or even on the extreme end, that something like a X-Rail is as big of a hinderance as claimed.

I've seen any number of skilled 3 gun shooters who are able to lay down any number of targets in very short order with shotguns that would be considered extremely front heavy and unbalanced.

Ultimately, I think that there are two approaches to shotgunning being taken here. On the one hand, people with experience shooting clays and birds understand and value the ability to swing a shotgun, and therefore value the same in a defensive gun.

On the other hand, people with a background in defensive use or practical shooting competition generally run their shotguns in the manner mentioned by Chris Rhines a few posts ago, basically as large-bore, short-medium range rifles. In these cases, swing isn't considered as important as capacity.

One of the first things I learned when I started shooting 3 gun is that shotgun stages are won or lost not in the shooting, but in the reloading. Any technique (within division rules) that reduces the number of reloads you have to make will save you precious seconds on the course. in the same way, I see little reason for why the same wouldn't apply in a home defense scenario as well, especially since such a situation is extremely unlikely to occur when wearing a beltfull of shell carriers.


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[CaptainChaos]

I agree with Justin.

I shoot PSG using a thirty-year-old Ithaca M37. It has the minimum length barrel allowed in the UK: 24". It holds 7+1 rounds. (Or 8+1 with 32g birdshot cartridges.)

Pretty much all the other club members have more modern guns or are, at least, somewhat "tricked up". Other people say my gun kicks pretty hard.

Thing is, when that beeper goes, I don't notice the weight up front. I don't notice the recoil. I'm concentrating on shootin' and loadin'. (Of course, muzzle direction and safety still remain paramount.)

I reckon - from my relatively short time shooting, and shooting PSG in particular (two years) - that black paint and bling are not nearly as important as whether you've *shot* your gun on a frequent and regular basis.

O'course, the steel plates don't shoot back, so that's another thing that's likely to concentrate your mind wonderfully on the task in hand.

Regards,

Mark.

 

[leadcounsel]

I like the extra ammo and not having to fumble, probably in the dark and presumbably after firing off 4 shells, of having to reload... of course I have reloads, but prefer not to have to in a life and death situation. (I know, train train and train some more)

But for those against it for cost (come on, mag tube extensions are what, $20... on an already inexpensive weapon system) or weight (you can't handle an extra 8 ounces of weight?), I disagree.

The argument about faster to maneuver and lighter to carry... where exactly are you maneuvering that 8 oz is going to make one whit of difference? As for target aquisition... are you in a field firing at rabbits running around??

If you're doing it logically, in a home defense situation with a shot gun, you are in close areas of 30' or less - if you've planned at all, you know your surroundings and will play defense in your home and let the intruders come to you. Even if you're clearing your house (probably not ideal, but maybe necessary in some circumstances) you are "pie-ing" rooms from corners...

Ideally, you've created a defensive fatal funnel where you just pump and fire in one direction; the extra rounds give you the opportunity to fire more and/or reload before you run dry.

If you have 4 shots, what if you have 5 targets???

If you don't like the weight, then just load it down with the option of loading it up if you need to.

I see zero reason against the extra 1-3 shells you can get in a longer magazine tube.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I shoot PSG using a thirty-year-old Ithaca M37. It has the minimum length barrel allowed in the UK: 24". It holds 7+1 rounds. (Or 8+1 with 32g birdshot cartridges.)

I thought that there was a mag cap on shotguns over there.

 

[Justin]

The rules on shotguns in the UK are not as unreasonably stupid as their laws governing handguns and rifles. There is a magazine capacity limit, though I'm not sure what it is, and semi-auto shotguns are allowed.

Believe it or not, but some of the best practical shotgun competitors are Brits.



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[Youngster]

I'm not denying that there is a difference, or that a shotgun without a tube swings easier than one with a tube, I'm just not sure that an extension tube, or even on the extreme end, that something like a X-Rail is as big of a hinderance as claimed.

I've seen any number of skilled 3 gun shooters who are able to lay down any number of targets in very short order with shotguns that would be considered extremely front heavy and unbalanced.

Ultimately, I think that there are two approaches to shotgunning being taken here. On the one hand, people with experience shooting clays and birds understand and value the ability to swing a shotgun, and therefore value the same in a defensive gun.

On the other hand, people with a background in defensive use or practical shooting competition generally run their shotguns in the manner mentioned by Chris Rhines a few posts ago, basically as large-bore, short-medium range rifles. In these cases, swing isn't considered as important as capacity.

One of the first things I learned when I started shooting 3 gun is that shotgun stages are won or lost not in the shooting, but in the reloading. Any technique (within division rules) that reduces the number of reloads you have to make will save you precious seconds on the course. in the same way, I see little reason for why the same wouldn't apply in a home defense scenario as well, especially since such a situation is extremely unlikely to occur when wearing a beltfull of shell carriers.

I don`t want to knock 3 gunners here but the more extreme setups don`t look so practical for street or bush use where concerns of portability, encumbrance and durability come into play.

Also, I doubt there are many real world instances where you`d need to shoot a shotgun in one string anywhere near as much as you do in competition, at least outside of a warzone.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I don`t want to knock 3 gunners here but the more extreme setups don`t look so practical for street or bush use where concerns of portability, encumbrance and durability come into play.

You do realize we are talking about home defense guns right?

 

[P5 Guy]

Don't Have One

And don't want one, thank you.