Anyone shooting the Newtons?

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Hope this helps,
Mr. Hummel presently runs the custom order desk at Hornady, and is a champion target shooter. Mr. Dave Kiff, of Pacific Tool and Gauge referred me to him. Hornady had to get the legalities correct, or be sued ala Rick Jamison vs. Winchester. The orig. Newtons had really thick case walls to do the 1912 expansion trick. The later Schulers used this same case wall thickness, but in a proper German chamber. The new Ruger Basics are the same diameter as the orig. Newton chamber, but too large for the derivative Schulers. This Ruger is one tough customer. The extractor rim takes a herky regimen, in the foming stages, without ripping out of my RCBS shellholder. I guess the real question about the 38 and 40 Newtons, is why bother, when the 375 and 416 Rugers are available off the shelves. Right now, everyone and his uncle is necking the 375 Ruger down. My effort wasn't to grab more power, but just to get an American case, that follows along with the general 8 x 68 Schuler, and feeds really smoothly through old mil. M98 Mausers, with the old stepped barrels. Interestingly, there's a baker's dozen of these 8 x 416 Ruger reamers, that Dave has sent to South Africa, but so far no one has tried what I'm up to. All three of these, the 8 x 06, the 8 x 338 Win., and my nascent wildcat, will get around the 150 gr. Hornady jumping over the long leade of the military 8 x 57 chambers. I feel that the PMM, or 8 x 338, is still the better bet, with the lighter bullets. It's only with the long brass Barnes, and the heaviest jacketed lead bullets , that my new 'cat' is designed to fill an economical niche.
 
Well, I know Dave Kiff, he made my .40 Newton reamer...

And regarding patents and legality, there would not be any problems. Newton never made any patents regarding his cartridges or the use of his name. All the Newton rifles have the stamp "Patent pending", a patent had been applied for only, but Newton never obtained it.

More likely, Hornady wanted to take a good idea and put their own name on it...

And regarding the expansion trick, no again.

As I said earlier, I have done a lot of research before I got to build my .30 Newton. The reamer I am using is an original from the Newton facory, it once belonged to Bruce Jennings. The man I am borrowing it from has two original .30 Newton rifles and was a close friend of Bruce Jennings. He also have several other Newtons, and has been shooting and experimenting with them for a long time. His excact comment to this was: That's just baloney...no
truth to it at all. Some stupid rumor or misinformation.

So, sorry you are wrong. As I wrote earlier, real knowledge comes from experience. And I would rather listen to someone who actually has shoot the .30 Newton, and learned from that...
 
Is this based on old data and powder, at least for the Newtons. And how is the case capacity measured, is it the whole case or up the bullet?

An original Newton case will hold 89,2 grs of water without a bullet.
AmmoGuide case capacities are calculated, based on a case full to the mouth.

There is no one "correct" value for case capacity. It is a GENERAL GUIDE only. An empirical measurement depends on many factors such as whether the case is "fired", "unfired", or "fired and sized" (and whether neck or full-length sized), whether the case contains internal "soot" or is clean, whether the primer cup is blocked or filled, altitude, temperature, brass thickness, brass manufacturer, etc etc etc. Because water is very dense (56,000 gr./gallon), such variables can cause much greater variation in measuring case capacity than is normally expected. Those who expect exact values for case capacities and try to define it to tenths of grains are involved in an exercise in futility, no matter how carefully they conduct their measurements.

The algorithms on AmmoGuide for calculating case capacities have been tested and found to be accurate and concistent from cases as diverse as the .22 Hornet to the .50 BMG. The REAL value of this approach is that ALL CASES ON THE WEBSITE ARE EVALUATED AGAINST THE SAME STANDARD. Because of this, AmmoGuide is one of the few places on the planet where case volumes can be compared consistently and without the abovementioned variables introducing comparison error.
 
Mike: I understand what you say, but I also see that you don't have many data points on the Newtons.

As I said earlier, I have been contact with people who use the Newton cartridges, and with no exceptions, all get higher velocities than you list at Ammoguide.

I wonder, are your data based on old factory ammunition?

Pale Horse: Thanks for the link earlier, I got the Western brass.
 
I have always been interested in the Newton Rifle because my uncle had one when he fell off a cliff while coyote hunting and was killed many years ago. That gun was given to a neighbor because Grandma didn't want it around to remind her of the tragedy and the gun was lost in a house fire in the 60's. I recently found a 256 Newton at a gun show and purchased it and had a relative load up some ammo after finding 256 dies. The first 8 or 10 rounds were all timed at around 2800 to 3200 FPS and than we had a louder ignition which locked the bolt up and smoke was exiting the breach area and around the bolt. The speed was 4100 FPS and the bullet hit the target at such an angle it knocked the 55 gallon barrel down. We were unable to open the bolt so I took it to the local gunsmith to open it and check the damage. He opened it with a 2X4 and hammer and found there was no damage and said we were lucky because of the triple lug lockup. My relative said he couldn't have made a mistake in reloading but I seriously have me doubts. So I am a believer in the Newton and its ability to take the worst punishment that could have been administered to a wonderful rifle.
 
As I recall, Elmer thought highly of Mr. Newton's cartridges. As usual, that's good enough for me.
 
Wildcats

The first rule in wildcatting is don't reinvent the .308. If you are looking for more power or distance read up on new amunition.

A 22 hornet gets 2600 fps; a 22 K-Hornet gets 2800 maybe 2900. Hornets used to be $25 bucks for 50 rounds. It costs $1.50 - $2.00 per round to shoot a K-Hornet and case life is short. A 223 gets 32oo fps for $ .25 a round.

With a wildcat you are going to spend a lot of time and money finding components and messing with loads. If that is your desire, have a ball. I have a .257 Roberts Ackley Improved that gets 3100 fps from a 120 gr Nozler partition bullet and yes it is accurate.

Fire forming 257 Roberts cases is as much fun at 2700 fps. It's just as accurate and the stuff you shoot with it is just as dead.

The .270 was originally a wildcat. Jack O'Conner's load of 60 gr of 4831 under a 130 bullet pulls 3100 fps.

Higene
 
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We have a 256 newton and it is a VERY nice rifle. Set trigger and very well made and very expensive. I am almost to afraid to take it out hunting.
 
The man was a ballistic genious, in my view one of the most gifted ever in America.
I am a bit weird and am a bit fond of J. M. Browning, Sam Colt, Oliver Winchester, E. Remington, et cetera...Newton doesn't make the list...but as was mentioned above he was a culinary genius...and didn't do too bad with the whole gravity thing either. On a more serious note the only Newton I recall is the .30, which IIRC is similar to the .300WM....but I may be very wrong. :)
 
Newton Load Data and Case Forming

Hello All, has anyone viewed www.suncoastgunclub.com
Pictures, case dimentions, modern load data, historical load data, Chas Newton history, cartridge case forming. A trove of stuff!! Check it out.
 
newton worked in a time in which chronographs were not common or of modern type, and without accurate pressure gauges. to get the performance he quoted you would have to exceed 50 Ksi by a long shot. his cartridges were overstated, this the opinion of writers as early as the '40's, such as phil sharpe, julian hatcher, etc. his creations are definitely a unique niche in American ballistic history, but they are not magic ju-ju.
 
So happens that I happen to have a Newton rifle in .30 Newton caliber. I also have some ammo but never had reason to fire it, as it's just part of my gun collection. As a point of history, the .30 Newton was originally named the Adolph Express, after it's actual developer. That was in 1913 or thereabouts. Newton later chambered his rifles for it and renamed the round. Ammo was made by Western Cartridge until they dropped it in 1930's. If anyone is really interested I can snap some pictures and post them here. The rifle has some interesting features but the ugliest dog leg bolt handle I ever saw.
 
LOL, reworked Enfield? Thanks for laugh, it's always amusing to get uninformed opinions from the uninformed.
Shoot well, safely and often...
Offfhand
 
My .30 Newton:

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Built on a left hand Ruger Hawkeye action, B&C stock and a Kongsberg (Norwegian) match barrel. The scope is a S&B 3-12x42.

I get 3200 fps with 180 grs North Fork bullets and 71 grs Norma MRP, original Speer brass.
 
So happens that I happen to have a Newton rifle in .30 Newton caliber. I also have some ammo but never had reason to fire it, as it's just part of my gun collection. As a point of history, the .30 Newton was originally named the Adolph Express, after it's actual developer. That was in 1913 or thereabouts. Newton later chambered his rifles for it and renamed the round. Ammo was made by Western Cartridge until they dropped it in 1930's. If anyone is really interested I can snap some pictures and post them here. The rifle has some interesting features but the ugliest dog leg bolt handle I ever saw.

Please do! :)
 
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