bluethunder1962
Member
M7 we must think alike. I love moble 1. I have been using it in all my trucks forever.
ATF is good for drills and files when using them for alum.
ATF is good for drills and files when using them for alum.
Anyone use gear oil for pistol lube?
- Thread starter wbwanzer
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Must be a lot of auto mechanics in this bunch...
I've got a can of that, it's fantastic grease! My can will last me the rest of my life.
For lube, I've used Mobil 1, and ATF. Both worked great, no lube issues at all, from -20F to 100F.
A few months ago, I had 1/2 a quart of Mercon(ATF) on my bench, and ran across 1/2 a tube of engine assembly lube. I mixed them together, and have been using that on my pistols since maybe April??
Seems a little thicker than ATF alone, sticks to metal and stays where you put it, which is what engine assembly lube was designed to do. It'll be interesting to see what it does this winter.
I've got a can of that, it's fantastic grease! My can will last me the rest of my life.
For lube, I've used Mobil 1, and ATF. Both worked great, no lube issues at all, from -20F to 100F.
A few months ago, I had 1/2 a quart of Mercon(ATF) on my bench, and ran across 1/2 a tube of engine assembly lube. I mixed them together, and have been using that on my pistols since maybe April??
Seems a little thicker than ATF alone, sticks to metal and stays where you put it, which is what engine assembly lube was designed to do. It'll be interesting to see what it does this winter.
kcshooter
Member
Rereading that, I should have said Teflon-silicone grease, not lube. And yeah, it really is impressive. Put a dab and your finger, then try wiping it off, it'll stay slick no matter how much you try to get it all off.
Possibly so, blue.
I've used M1 (and some others) on my guns for longer than I care to think and I have never had a problem with corrosion or lubrication failure. Stick with a good synthetic (M1, Amsoil, Red Line, Eneos, etc.) and it's all good.
A lot of folks think that motor oils lack anti-corrosion and anti-rust additives, but they have lots of those along with AW/EP additives (ZDDP is the most common) and dispersants/detergents that keep contaminants in suspension and make clean-up a little easier.
Transmission fluid has less (in some cases a lot less) of all of these anti-corrosion, EP/AW, and dispersant/detergent additives since it serves in a less harsh environment, but some think that because ATF is red, it is somehow "mo bettah". It isn't- the red color is just from a different dye and the base stock is usually close to or the same as that used in motor oils- just has less of the anti-rust, EP/Aw and detergent additives described above. The pinkish stains it leaves behind on clothing are more noticeable, too.
STP (and similar products) is nothing more than a ploymeric thickening agent (the technical term is viscosity improver) that usually has a little extra ZDDP added to it for good measure. Nothing special there.
All of this is easily confirmed over on the BITOG 'site- lots of VOAs and UOAs over there that bears this all out. Just gotta know how to read 'em.
kcshooter
Member
That's not true. ATF has a very high detergent content, much higher than motor oil. It also has additives to increase it's shear strength, which allows it to leave a thinner and more consistent coating over metal surfaces. This is what causes the anticorrosion qualities to be high in ATF.
Consider the difference in Type-F ATF vs Mercon/Dexron ATF. The buffering additives in the Mercon/Dexron allow the transmissions clutch plates to engage without slamming, by resisting shear. Type-F has been called the "poor man's shift kit" because when used in a transmission designed for Mercon/Dexron, it allows much faster and harsher engagement of the plates.
There have been multiple tests on this using bare steel, and the ATF coated plates fare better than the motor oil coated ones when exposed to natural elements. If I can find one in particular, I'll post the link, as the results are pretty definitive.
Nothing wrong with Mobil 1, but the qualities of ATF that make it valuable as a firearm lube have nothing to do with color.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I still haven't figured out any reason not to use gun specific lubricants sold for the purpose.
I'm tight, and cheap, and all that.
But not tight & cheap enough to buy my gun oil in quart engine oil cans at the auto parts store!!
I couldn't live long enough to use a quart of oil on all the guns in my 50+ gun collection if I lived another 50 years.
Which I won't.
Anyway, old oil in a dirty quart bottle I had for years is not as good for my guns as a fresh clean bottle of gun oil every few years.
rc
I'm tight, and cheap, and all that.
But not tight & cheap enough to buy my gun oil in quart engine oil cans at the auto parts store!!
I couldn't live long enough to use a quart of oil on all the guns in my 50+ gun collection if I lived another 50 years.
Which I won't.
Anyway, old oil in a dirty quart bottle I had for years is not as good for my guns as a fresh clean bottle of gun oil every few years.
rc
Zerodefect
member
Gun specific lubes are just auto lubes mixed in the basement of Moms gunstore. Nothing that can't be duplicated or improved on.
ATF, STP, Mobile1 mixed evenly.
Then add wheel bearing grease to thicken it if you want to. I make everything from light thick oil, to ketchup thick oil. Ketchup thick works best on my 1911s, Glocks, and Ar15's. Haven't noticed any winter problems, or dirt problems yet.
ATF, STP, Mobile1 mixed evenly.
Then add wheel bearing grease to thicken it if you want to. I make everything from light thick oil, to ketchup thick oil. Ketchup thick works best on my 1911s, Glocks, and Ar15's. Haven't noticed any winter problems, or dirt problems yet.
Pardini (the makers of the guns you see being used in the Olympics) supposedly recommends ATF fluid on their guns. Those guys need flawless reliability (otherwise 4 years of hard work is ruined with a malfunction), and it seems to work.
I've used Mobil 1 to good effect, but generally like Hoppes gun oil.
I've used Mobil 1 to good effect, but generally like Hoppes gun oil.
Gear oil would be my last choice out of any automotive fluids. Besides being heavy weight it stinks to high heaven and depending on who makes it there's added friction modifiers and stuff.
ATF is the cleanest of all. Has lots of detergent and anti-foaming things added.
If I had to use regular oil I would pick a straight weight synthetic.
That being said I use gun oil for guns, and automotive oil for vehicles. I seriously doubt anyone here would use gun oil in their engine, why should it be any different the other way around.
ATF is the cleanest of all. Has lots of detergent and anti-foaming things added.
If I had to use regular oil I would pick a straight weight synthetic.
That being said I use gun oil for guns, and automotive oil for vehicles. I seriously doubt anyone here would use gun oil in their engine, why should it be any different the other way around.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, that's not really a "fair" comparison. Automotive oils have to deal with conditions no gun ever, ever, EVER has to operate under and often must keep that up for years at a time.
All a gun oil really has to do is keep the metal from riding directly on other metal, keep moisture off the metal, and maybe keep fouling up in suspension. 'Most any oil will do that ok. Heck, I'd be pretty confident using olive oil if I had to!
But automotive oils have extremely difficult and specific jobs that gun oils just aren't made to handle.
Walking Dead
Member
Most auto oils won't harm plastics and polymers. There are as many plastic and polymer parts in engines as there are guns now days.
And often a nice package of high pressure additives, like the ones that stink of sulfur.
If you ever sit down and compute the pressure loading on things like a differential pinion gear the numbers are VERY high.
Large force over small contact area produces very high loading.
If you want something thicker find a temperature stable grease and use sparingly.
Mobil 1 grease works well.
There are some VERY expensive greases for use in very cold environments, but they are painfully expensive ad overkill for any place you wold be alive.
MachIVshooter
Member
Intake manifolds, valve covers, timing covers, oil pans, windage trays, timing chain guides, water pump impellers........there's a pretty extensive list these days. Some even use composite timing chain sprockets to keep noise down. Polymers have come a long way in being able to resist heat and deformation.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ahhh, I see, and you're absolutely right!
My view of this is I can buy a quart of cheap ATF for less than $5 (or I could back when I bought the case I still have half of) or I could buy a 4 or 10 OUNCE bottle of "super bug snot gun oil (with teflon)" for only a few dollars more than that!
I hope that stuff is overkill, too! But I only need so much overkill, and I like cheap, good stuff.
kcshooter
Member
Yep. Not to mention transmissions which also have chains, guides, buffers, and many other internal parts made of plastics.
TreeDoc
Member
You can use anything in a pinch, seen my grand dad use diesel in an old auto that was acting up. It's all that was available at the time and it worked. I try not to out think engineers and gun designers and go with cleaners and lubes they prescribe and leave the automotive products to autos.
Walking Dead
Member
You didn't really think these the gun company's come up with these fancy materials, coatings and processes did you? This stuff trickles down from aerospace and automotive.
kcshooter
Member
Yep, as do the lubricants.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah. Special gun lubricants are all marketing hype. Nothing wrong with it, but they're choosing from the same lists of lubricant componants, bases, and additives that all lube manufacturers use. They pick a few, mix them up, decide if it smells like gun oil, and come up with a good label and ad campaign -- then charge enough that people think it must be awesome stuff!
kcshooter
Member
You aren't.
A 4oz bottle of the (newly-Winchester-branded) Breakfree CLP is about $8 bucks. A 32oz (8 times as much) bottle of Mercon ATF is $5.
One will not outperform the other on a firearm.
(One will outperform the other in an automatic transmission.)
Like I said, even CZ manuals say (or used to say) use kerosene to clean with. You're not out thinking the engineers and designers, you're out thinking yourself.
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ATF is NOT high in detergency and is much less so than motor oil despite a claim here to the contrary.
ATF is high in dispersants a whole different thing than detergents.
Go here http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm and read myth #12.
Oh- and it isn't Dextron, it is Dexron. There many different ATF specs now unlike years ago when there were just 2 or 3.
ATF is high in dispersants a whole different thing than detergents.
Go here http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm and read myth #12.
Oh- and it isn't Dextron, it is Dexron. There many different ATF specs now unlike years ago when there were just 2 or 3.
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