Anyone using copper or brass solids in pistol calibers

[AJC1]

I keep hearing about hunting shifting over to only monumental bullets and was cheating to see if anyone was shooting pistols or hunting with pistol caliber rounds. Barnes is what I ran into that brought these up and the preloaded rounds are ugly expensive. The projectiles are on line for about 50 cents each which is by no means giving them away but an order of magnitude easier to deal with. I would be looking at the 357 xpb bullet.

 

[murf]

might want this in the hunting subforum.

murf

 

[Spade5]

Actually, I am curious about this as well. Hopefully someone will chime in with their experience.

 

[AJC1]

might want this in the hunting subforum.

murf

I was kind of curious if people use this Beyond hunting and another thread someone was discussing how Mono's needed to be more mainstream

 

[labnoti]

The Barnes XPB and TAC-XP handgun bullets perform outstandingly when loaded to impact at the designed velocity. I have not personally shot large game with them, but it is what I carry for all purposes. I like the 140 grain .357" XPB which will expand well down to 1100 fps and will still deeply penetrate at that velocity. The 125 grain TAC-XP (also formerly called XPB but now featuring a 'tactical' black color) expands dependably down to 1200 fps and it also penetrates deeply above 1400 fps. I believe these are the best-performing .357 bullets there are and that's why I carry them. If they're not the best, they're certainly among them.

For lower velocity cartridges like the most popular 9mm, .40, .45, they don't stand out as the best performers. I'm not quite sure exactly why that is, but it probably has to do with the combination of lower velocity and lower sectional density. In some cases (9mm and 40) they expand, but don't penetrate. In the .45 they may not expand dependably. Monometal hollowpoints are often associated with high velocity performance, but we can see outstanding performance in 300 BLK where velocities are relatively low. I think the key to the lower velocity performance is a softer metal to get expansion, combined with a high sectional density to drive penetration. The 140 grain .357 achieves that while bullets of this design that are shorter at lower velocities may not.

 

[AJC1]

The Barnes XPB and TAC-XP handgun bullets perform outstandingly when loaded to impact at the designed velocity. I have not personally shot large game with them, but it is what I carry for all purposes. I like the 140 grain .357" XPB which will expand well down to 1100 fps and will still deeply penetrate at that velocity. The 125 grain TAC-XP (also formerly called XPB but now featuring a 'tactical' black color) expands dependably down to 1200 fps and it also penetrates deeply above 1400 fps. I believe these are the best-performing .357 bullets there are and that's why I carry them. If they're not the best, they're certainly among them.

For lower velocity cartridges like the most popular 9mm, .40, .45, they don't stand out as the best performers. I'm not quite sure exactly why that is, but it probably has to do with the combination of lower velocity and lower sectional density. In some cases (9mm and 40) they expand, but don't penetrate. In the .45 they may not expand dependably. Monometal hollowpoints are often associated with high velocity performance, but we can see outstanding performance in 300 BLK where velocities are relatively low. I think the key to the lower velocity performance is a softer metal to get expansion, combined with a high sectional density to drive penetration. The 140 grain .357 achieves that while bullets of this design that are shorter at lower velocities may not.

Your response was very much appreciated because that is the exact bullet that I was curious about. Do you practice with it or shoot it at the range at all or is it just something you carry, expense being a major factor.

 

[labnoti]

It's costly, so it is not my primary practice bullet. I do practice with it, though 'function testing' is not as critical with a revolver as it would be with an autoloader. I've been carrying it two years and I've shot about 160 of them. I have about that many on backorder right now, and between the ammo and component panic-buying, pandemic factory shutdowns, and the Remington bankruptcy (Barnes is owned by Remington), I don't know when to expect that shipment.

I practice with 158 grain plated hollowpoints from Berry's or RMR. With the extra (lead) mass and hollowpoint cavity, these bullets are almost as long as the 140 grain XPB and have a very similar shape, but I can buy them at about 1/7th the cost. I also practice with Hornady XTP seconds and Speer TMJ. They don't mimic the XPB in appearance, but the XTP in particular is an outstanding bullet that gives me very consistent loads. The plated bullets (Berrys, RMR, and TMJ) are less consistent but they're still accurate and shoot clean. The practice bullets I don't like at all are the coated cast lead, Missouri and ACME. Some people seem to really like them, so I bought a bunch and don't like them.

 

[AJC1]

It's costly, so it is not my primary practice bullet. I do practice with it, though 'function testing' is not as critical with a revolver as it would be with an autoloader. I've been carrying it two years and I've shot about 160 of them. I have about that many on backorder right now, and between the ammo and component panic-buying, pandemic factory shutdowns, and the Remington bankruptcy (Barnes is owned by Remington), I don't know when to expect that shipment.

I practice with 158 grain plated hollowpoints from Berry's or RMR. With the extra (lead) mass and hollowpoint cavity, these bullets are almost as long as the 140 grain XPB and have a very similar shape, but I can buy them at about 1/7th the cost. I also practice with Hornady XTP seconds and Speer TMJ. They don't mimic the XPB in appearance, but the XTP in particular is an outstanding bullet that gives me very consistent loads. The plated bullets (Berrys, RMR, and TMJ) are less consistent but they're still accurate and shoot clean. The practice bullets I don't like at all are the coated cast lead, Missouri and ACME. Some people seem to really like them, so I bought a bunch and don't like them.

I would consider the Hornady xtp or the CCI gold dot Its primary competitor for performance and not even closing cost. Even at twice the price I might consider it but it's more like four or five times the cost

 

[labnoti]

Gold Dot and XTP are much less costly bullets. I like the XTP seconds I purchased in bulk because they were around 10 cents each. At that rate, I can treat them like range fodder and they do quite well at that.

If I were to look for performance similar to 140 grain XBP, I would look at Swift A Frame, one of Lehigh Defense's offerings, or Cutting Edge Bullets Razor. The A Frame is likely to offer the dependable expansion and deep penetration on big game. The Lehigh has similar monometal construction, providing the non-toxic benefits, but I'm more skeptical of some of their designs because they're unconventional in other respects. They have the xtreme penetrator and the controlled fracturing. Cutting Edge's Razor looks similar to the controlled fracturing design. The concerns I have with fluid displacement designs like the Xtreme is that gel evidence shows effect but that effect may be disrupted on live targets. With the fracturing bullets, my concern is the fractured pieces have insufficient momentum to penetrate significantly and may contribute nothing meaningful to wounding.

357 from a non-snubnosed barrel is a cartridge where fanciful bullet design is not important to achieving good results within popular expectations. If you press your expectations to include things like performance on moose, elk, large bear, (not the popular targets for 357) then the bullet design could become a factor. Otherwise, semi-jacketed hollowpoints will work. I think 140 grain XPB's work a little better, they don't contaminate my pockets (or my game meat if I were to hunt with it) with lead, and they're affordable enough for defensive and hunting use.

 

[AJC1]

Gold Dot and XTP are much less costly bullets. I like the XTP seconds I purchased in bulk because they were around 10 cents each. At that rate, I can treat them like range fodder and they do quite well at that.

If I were to look for performance similar to 140 grain XBP, I would look at Swift A Frame, one of Lehigh Defense's offerings, or Cutting Edge Bullets Razor. The A Frame is likely to offer the dependable expansion and deep penetration on big game. The Lehigh has similar monometal construction, providing the non-toxic benefits, but I'm more skeptical of some of their designs because they're unconventional in other respects. They have the xtreme penetrator and the controlled fracturing. Cutting Edge's Razor looks similar to the controlled fracturing design. The concerns I have with fluid displacement designs like the Xtreme is that gel evidence shows effect but that effect may be disrupted on live targets. With the fracturing bullets, my concern is the fractured pieces have insufficient momentum to penetrate significantly and may contribute nothing meaningful to wounding.

357 from a non-snubnosed barrel is a cartridge where fanciful bullet design is not important to achieving good results within popular expectations. If you press your expectations to include things like performance on moose, elk, large bear, (not the popular targets for 357) then the bullet design could become a factor. Otherwise, semi-jacketed hollowpoints will work. I think 140 grain XPB's work a little better, they don't contaminate my pockets (or my game meat if I were to hunt with it) with lead, and they're affordable enough for defensive and hunting use.

I looked all over the Lehigh site I did not see any pistol calibers.

 

[Obturation]

I looked all over the Lehigh site I did not see any pistol calibers.

Lehigh bullets are different than lehigh defense. Lehigh defense sells monolithic pistol bullets, they're excellent.https://www.lehighdefense.com/index...r=f1-product-type,bullets/f2-gun-type,handgun

 

[AJC1]

Lehigh bullets are different than lehigh defense. Lehigh defense sells monolithic pistol bullets, they're excellent.https://www.lehighdefense.com/index...r=f1-product-type,bullets/f2-gun-type,handgun

Wow thank you for the link much appreciated. They appear to be twice as expensive as the Barnes Bullets

 

[Obturation]

Wow thank you for the link much appreciated. They appear to be twice as expensive as the Barnes Bullets

Costly.
The one I use is the extreme penetrator for 380, I was using ball ammo but switched because the xp does cause a little extra disruption and doesn't deform through barriers

 

[labnoti]

The high cost has to do with the way they're made -- individually machined on a lathe. Of course they use CNC automation, but it still takes a lot more machine time per 1000 bullets than casting, swaging, extruding, or some other forming process.

Cutting Edge also turns bullets. Here's their handgun products: https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets/handgun-bullets

 

[AJC1]

The high cost has to do with the way they're made -- individually machined on a lathe. Of course they use CNC automation, but it still takes a lot more machine time per 1000 bullets than casting, swaging, extruding, or some other forming process.

Cutting Edge also turns bullets. Here's their handgun products: https://cuttingedgebullets.com/shop/cutting-edge-bullets/handgun-bullets

Machine time has a lot to do with the total cost of these bullets and something more simple like a plain hollow point I think could be made the most cost-effective if we really intend to go mainstream with them. This company solid bullets cost a dollar a piece holy smokes Barnes is starting to seem like a great deal at $0.50 a piece.