AR-15 kits

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bender

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yeah, I know... yet another AR thread... I can't help myself

I'm interested in getting one of the "complete kits" (without the stripped lower). Let's assume the CAR A4 kit from RRA. Already assembled, headspaced, and test fired. It's my understanding that this is not an "FFL" transaction...?

Then later I would get a stripped lower - also say from RRA. This would require an FFL.

Total cost $795 at full retail. The similar complete assembled CAR A4 rifle retails for $1000.

Olympia also has a similar kit. I don't know which company is considered better quality, or even the many other companies.

I figure this way: its cheaper, and you can buy the 2 parts at different times - as you can afford to. And its a learning experience.

Or maybe you can shop the gun shows and get a similar complete rifle at the same price or even cheaper? I know some of you recommend buying a complete AR first, then trying your hand at building one later. However, it seems that the "complete rifle kits (but no stripped lower) are already assembled and tested for you. So all I would have to do is put the lower parts in.

does this sound ok? and what about the other AR companies, do they also offer the complete rifle kits w/o the stripper lowers? Is Oly a decent company?

thanks, and sorry for rambling...

edit: I was tempted to add this post to clarkpat's "building an AR" thread, but I'm trying to stop hijacking threads...
 
I've been debating this very same thing for about 6 months now, so you're not alone. My main concern is that I've never even field stripped an AR before, let alone tried to assemble one from scratch.

Are there any special tools needed to put one of these kits together?
Is "model 1" sales a decend supplier for these kits?
 
To answer your question on tooling, all that is needed to assemble the lower is a stock wrench, like the one by RRA. It works on the CAR stock as well as the buffer tube used on A1/A2 rifle stocks. A lower reciever holding fixture is not a necessity, but helps while you assemble the lower. The hinge pin detent and spring can be fun. I found compressing the detent and spring into its hole with the flat side of a single edged razor bladewhile inserting the pin is the fastest way (IMO). A 3/16" allen head nut driver/bit for the grip screw is also needed, as is a 3/32" roll pin punch for the bolt stop roll pin, and a 1/8" roll pin punch for the trigger guard roll pin.

Stock wrench=
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16882&title=AR-15+M4+STOCK+WRENCH

Lower reciever vise block=
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/st...title=AR-15/M16+UPPER+&+LOWER+RECEIVER+BLOCKS
 
where does one buy the kit at a discount, that is if one is determined to not pay full retail ?
 
The hinge pin detent and spring can be fun.
Click to expand...
That's for sure!

I found compressing the detent and spring into its hole with the flat side of a single edged razor bladewhile inserting the pin is the fastest way (IMO).
Click to expand...
Excellent idea!
 
does the military use 20" barrels? and they are HBAR right? RRA doesn't have a 20" complete kit.

and what about paying a slight premium for a chome lined barrel ($40 retail). Worth it? I probably will not shoot the rifle that much, but I may appreciate the "easier to clean" aspect of it.
 
An M16A2/3/4 is Gov't profile, thin under handguards. As far as chrome, if the rifle will just be a range toy, and you'll be using "good" ammo, then the chrome probably won't be worth it to you.
 
I've been browsing AR-15 kits. Some say "ban compliant".

If the ban ended 2 years ago, why do companies still comply with it?

Model 1 is one of the companies that still label their stuff "ban compliant"
 
model 1 sales seems to have good prices, but I dont know what their rifle kit would be that is equivalent to this RRA kit:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-d...age=kcara4.gif&CFID=23346201&CFTOKEN=94624766

I want the flat top w/pic rail.

Another question I have is, when you put a scope (whatever type...) on a flat top, does the front sight get in the sight picture? Is that front sight removable, or is it a functional part of the rifle (a gas thingie, or whatever)?
 
http://www.model1sales.com/catalog-list.cfm?Category=01&Subcat=16-inch C.A.R.&storeid=1

I believe this is a list of Model 1 CAR kits, roughly equivalent to RRAs offering, in style not quality. The scope you choose needs to clear the front sight base, or with Aimpoints/ EOTech etc, you can co-witness the height of the center of the sight to match your front sight height. For a low-pro scope mount, you can remove the front sight base and replace it with many different styles of gas blocks. This can be difficult to do without the right tools, but Model 1 can customize your kit with several different gas block styles.
 
The comparative kit from Model 1 is here and would run about $480:

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KCE160&storeid=1&image=car16pre.gif


The A2 front sight on those models have the gas integral to it and is not easily removeable. Mount a scope low and you will be obstructed somewhat by the sight. With a red dot, the dot is usually cowitnessed with the front sight pretty close. However, you can get a railed gas block and a detacheable front sight if you want to use irons.

If you know you're going to scope it, I'd get the railed front gas block.
 
I'm positively gonna scope it, but I need to study up on all the options available. I'm preferential to a plain old glass scope. All these eoTechs, red dots, holographics, ACOGs, and such... it's all new to me. Plus, some of those scopes are damn expensive.

But I may scope it very much later after buying it. I will probably use the iron sights for a while first.

Ok, here we go with AR-15's For Dummies:

what's the diff between the standard CAR handguard, and the extra cost aluminum free float? I know they look different, but what's the operational diffs, if any? Pros & cons?

is that Model 1 rifle being shown with the collapsable stock all the way collapsed? I mean, the length of pull looks pretty small... I would probably want a little longer LOP.

do most people get the NATO chamber as opposed to a .223rem chamber? As far as I know, I'll only be shooting my own reloads (.223). I know that .223 can be shot in the NATO chamber, but not vice versa.

SigFanUSAF said:
I believe this is a list of Model 1 CAR kits, roughly equivalent to RRAs offering, in style not quality.
Click to expand...
does that mean that Model 1 is considered a "lesser quality" manufacturer?
 
I have no experience with Model 1, but plenty with Bushmaster, RRA, Colt, DPMS, Olympic Arms and an Armalite. My RRAs are top notch, I do not feel you'll find a better quality AR for the price. The 4 position stock in the photo in the link posted by lycanthrope is fully collapsed. The aluminum free float handguard is mounted via a special barrel nut, which takes any stress you put on the barrel with your support hand out of the equation. The CAR handguards are secured in the front by a retainer attached to the front sight base/ barrel. My RRAs (one with a Colt upper) are .223/5.56 and 5.56. I'll let someone with more knowledge on that subject answer this one.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=219175&highlight=model+sales

Check out this thread for other THR members input on Model 1.
 
The free float handguard offers a slight increase in accuracy. I like them.

The Model 1 6 position stock is the same as the RRA 6 position. Yes, it's shown collpased...although the adjustable stocks aren't as long as the full stock A2 model. For a scoped rifle I really get a much better cheekweld on the full stock.

Get the 5.56 chamber. With the 5.56 chamber you can shoot 5.56 ammo and .223 ammo. With a true .223 chamber in an AR you shouldn't shoot the hotter 5.56 ammo (the pressure it's loaded at is the only difference).

I'm happy with my Model 1.....and my Clark Gator....and my Olympic.....and my White Oak....all have been very reliable and ALL have shot under 1 MOA with my handloads. "Lesser" quality is quite subjective and muddied by internet lore. My Model 1 cost $515 to build and my Gator cost about $1100. Most shelf rifles run about $750-$1000. My Gator and White Oak are a LOT better than a shelf rifle. My Model 1 runs just as well as all of them with a slightly rougher gas block casting and a trigger that looked painted verus parkerized.

As a result, I think most shelf rifles are overpriced and my future rifles will all be either semi custom or cheap kits.
 
Is "model 1" sales a decend supplier for these kits?


I bought a Rifle kit from them. It has been great to me so far. I have fired only around 1000 rounds through it and have had no problems, other then these stupid ten round clips in California. And there customer service was outstanding.
 
It is much easier to add iron sights to a flat top/railed upper than to try to mount a scope on a carry handle. With a flat top you can even have a detacheable carry handle and have an A2 looking model.
 
attachment.php


True, most scopes don't adapt to carry handles easily:D
 
Yeah, it is better to have a flatop upper even if you dont want a scope right now. I wish I would have gotten a flatop, now that I want to put a red dot aiming scope on mine. I think I might just get a new upper compared to mounting the scope so high on the carry handle.
 
in this RRA lower parts diagram:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/item-d...age=lwrpts.gif&CFID=23346201&CFTOKEN=94624766

Let's say I get the RRA CAR A4 complete rifle kit, which has the collapsable stock. Let's also say, I want to use a regular butt stock sometimes. Do I just need to buy the outer buttstock (number 74 on the diagram)? I would probably also need to buy the "standard" receiver extension tube (# 113B).

Then if I want to put the standard buttstock on, I would have to change the receiver extension tube also...? and vice versa, when I want to use the CAR collapsable buttstock, I'd put the shorter CAR extension tube back on...?

any other parts needed just to change buttstocks?

edit: ok, I was posting this before I saw the previous 2 posts. Yes, like Sigfan's two rifles, that's what I'd want... except I'd want one rifle, that I could change between the collapsable buttstock and the standard buttstock. That's what I was trying to say here. Also, flat top instead.
 
You'd need the extension tube, the spacer, the stock screw, buffer, well heck, get the whole assy pn. AR0074K A2 Buttstock Kit, Black $57.50, as all the stock parts are different. Also AR0165 Tactical CAR Stock Wrench
Engages the lock nut on the Tactical CAR stock. $6.00 is needed.

The stock wrench works on the CAR nut and the buffer tube in the rifle stock
 
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