AR 15 Newbie needs help

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Redheadedstranger

Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
30
OK.....I have decided that I want to purchase my first AR15. I do have a few questions for the more experienced in the crowd.

1) Can someone please direct me to a good thread discussing the comparison of 16"-vs-18"-vs-"20 in .223/5.56.

2) One of the things I really like about the AR configuration is the ease of swapping uppers to fit your needs/wants. Will a .308 upper also fit any lower, or is the .308 a completely different animal? I know the interchangeability of the other calibers offered, just not sure of the .308.

3) Finally, if anyone has any good lead/suggestions on a their preference on a quality mid-range AR

I know these topics have been discussed in depth, but I could not seem to find a helpful thread through the search. I have looked quite a bit at AR15.com and I just prefer the crowd and knowledge on THR. Besides, if nobody posted new questions we would run out of things to discuss:).

Thanks in advance
 
What do you want the rifle to do? I believe a 16" barrel is a great compromise of velocity, weight, size, etc... for the average person with the average needs/wants.

No, a .308 upper will not work with an AR15 lower. You'll need an AR10 lower for .308 or any of the much larger calibers.

Mid range AR, look no further than Stag Arms. Better than most of the AR's you've probably heard of and cheaper than most of them as well.
 
1. www.ar15.com must have something for sure. Personally, It's either 16" or 20" for me. Not much difference between 16 and 18 OR between 18 and 20 really, depending on what you're shooting ammo-wise and distance-wise.
2. No, unless you buy a really exspensive modular AR. ~$2000 or so I think.
3. Midrange? Seems like there three ranges: Colt on one side, Olympic, homebrews, and kits on the other with all the rest of the major manufacturers in the middle. Personally, I have no problems buying Bushmaster, RRA, or DPMS. Also, this is not to say that someone can put together a really nice homebuilt or kit either. It's just that if you don't know what you're getting and what to check, you'd be better off getting something from a factory.
 
I know this is a long post, but it contains a lot of valuable info for a newbie.

I was in the same predicament as you over the past year and acquired my first AR about a month ago. I chose a Rock River Arms Entry Tactical. This particular rifle has a 16" chrome-lined barrel and 6-position telescopic stock. I recommend an AR with a chrome-lined barrel because they are tougher and more resistant to fouling than chrome-moly. I wanted an AR that was versatile and similar to the M-4.

I chose Rock River for a few reasons. I had heard nothing but good things about their firearms from actual owners. The DEA and FBI chose Rock River as their primary supplier of ARs. (I think that says something when you consider that they tested 10 or 11 other manufacturers' ARs.) You can customize your rifle (for instance, you can have Rock River put on quad rails, different grips, different stocks, green furniture, different muzzle devices, a winter trigger guard, a different barrel, etc. For the most part, if you want something, they will do it. In my case, I had them put on a muzzle brake, a winter trigger guard, a badger tactical latch on the charging handle, and a chrome-lined barrel.) There is an accuracy guarantee of 1 MOA at 100yds. Also, compared to the Colt 6920 that I was considering, the Rock River was probably $400 less. (I ended up paying about $1100 for my rifle with all the extra options, tax, and shipping.)

I will warn you that some people will try to feed you BS about ARs that are not milspec being inadequate and what not. I couldn't disagree more. Milspec only means that the AR has parts such as the buffer tube and some pins that are of a certain size, deemed milspec. The only problem that this would present is if you would want to switch your stock for a milspec stock. In that case, you would have to replace the non milspec buffer tube with a buffer tube that works with milspec stocks. That costs only $40 or so.

In all reality, the advice that was given to me when I was hunting for my first AR was that for the most part, all ARs, regardless of manufacturer, are basically the same. There are minor differences between the manufacturers, but regardless of what AR you choose, it will probably shoot just as reliably, and accurately as the next AR, for the most part. I was told to just get an AR, not wory about the brand, and shoot away. That is what I did and to date I can say that my Rock River is extremely accurate and has performed flawlessly. I am totally satisfied with my choice.

In conclusion, I think you will be content with whatever AR you eventually choose. They are a great fun. Let us know what you choose. Thanks.
 
this is just what i needed, since i am also considering my first AR-15 purchase.

kennyboy, when you ordered your RRA, after adding your options, how long did it take before you received your rifle? trying to get a good idea on actual shipping time with RRA. thanks!
 
1) Can someone please direct me to a good thread discussing the comparison of 16"-vs-18"-vs-"20 in .223/5.56.
Click to expand...

As far as barrel length, it's a personal preference thing. I like 16" mid-length AR's. As for caliber, I would suggest a 5.56mm or .223 Wylde chambered unit.

2) One of the things I really like about the AR configuration is the ease of swapping uppers to fit your needs/wants. Will a .308 upper also fit any lower, or is the .308 a completely different animal? I know the interchangeability of the other calibers offered, just not sure of the .308.
Click to expand...

As RMT pointed out, the .308 is a different animal altogether. These are both 16" mid-length rifles

ARs.jpg

To put it simply, the AR-15 can be chambered in pretty much any cartridge that will physically fit in the magazine LxW. ASI in texas does these conversions; IIRC, they have over 20 calibers available. As you'll see below, there's quite a difference between what will fit in an AR-15 vs. AR-10 Magwell:
ARmagwells.gif


3) Finally, if anyone has any good lead/suggestions on a their preference on a quality mid-range AR
Click to expand...

Pretty much all of them are good these days. I favor Armalite for a number of reasons, but would not feel poorly armed with any AR, save Hess.
 
Thanks for all the great input and advice. I was pretty sure that the AR15 and AR10 receivers were quite a bit different in size regarding the magwell, but thanks for the verification. I had looked pretty seriously at the Rock River Entry Tactical. I just wanted an all-around rifle that would suffice in most situations (SHTF, etc.) and one that my wife would be comfortable handling. I know it is not perfect for everything because one such firearm does not exist. Thanks again and I will post and let you all know what I have decided. Now to get all the funds together:rolleyes:.
 
I had an RRA, something, not long after the AWB died and before RRAs prices went up. It was a two-pin build that ran me about $650.

Mil-spec isnt such a big deal IMO, but stay away from colts that use the larger pins so you dont have any issues if you wind up swapping uppers.

16" HBARs dont seem that heavy until you handle an AR with M4 or government profile bbl. The lighter barrels handle a lot better IMO. Not all RRA "M4" bbls are M4 barrels, some are heavy under the handgaurds.

One thing I hate about RRA is that they stick a match trigger in everything but 9mms. I'm sure they'd sell me an AR with a mil-spec trigger if I called them, but a dealer ordered a stripped lower for me at the shot show, and I still havent got it.
 
Thats Funny...

It's either 16" or 20" for me. Not much difference between 16 and 18 OR between 18 and 20 really, depending on what you're shooting ammo-wise and distance-wise.
Click to expand...

That’s why I am getting an 18"Bbl. I just see it as a good compromise between the 16 and the 20, by giving up a little in maneuverability, you gain a little in velocity. To me the slight loss in maneuverability is worth the increase in velocity… but to each his own.

I think that Stag Arms, RRA, and Bushmaster all make good mid priced AR’s. Although some folks have had issues with DPMS, mine has run like a top. It did take about 200 rounds to break in, but after that, has been flawless and is less mag sensitive then the Bushmaster that I had.
 
kennyboy, when you ordered your RRA, after adding your options, how long did it take before you received your rifle? trying to get a good idea on actual shipping time with RRA. thanks!
Click to expand...

This was the only downside of ordering from RRA, but don't let it deter you from ordering from RRA. It took about 10.5 weeks until my rifle was in my hands. I think the time it takes depends on a number of factors including how many orders they have and how much customizing they have to do on your rifle. I will say that it was well worth the wait. I guess it is a good thing in a sense. Longer wait times mean that more people are ordering from RRA which means that the company must be doing something right.
 
18 inch AR-15 Barrels

Another point on the 18-inch barrel is that it is long enough to accomodate rifle-length handguards and gas system, which gives you a longer sight radius (good for those of us with bad eyesight).

The rifle-length sights can also be done on a 16, but leaves you with a front sight base and a separate low-profile gas-block under the handguards (added cost). Just look for "dissipator" style builds (often referred to as "dissy" as well).

As Zak can comment, 17-inch also works for a rifle-length gas system (he's posted gorgeous pics http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=109938 ) but pricing seems a bit higher than what I was able to find for the 18 ( http://www.cmmginc.com/ ), as I wasn't able to find them at any of non-custom shops I looked at.
 
YES!

I almost forgot:

Another point on the 18-inch barrel is that it is long enough to accomodate rifle-length handguards and gas system, which gives you a longer sight radius (good for those of us with bad eyesight).
Click to expand...

The other reason (read more important reason) for my new found lust for an 18”Bbl is that the “rifle length” gas system is much more reliable. It is also less sensitive to different loads as far as operating goes. Further more, the rifle length system tends to be smoother, and doesn’t cycle the bolt as violently as the carbine of mid length systems.
 
If I had to keep only 2 AR's, I would keep my 12" SBR and my 17" MSTN Comp-Tac. Heck, those are the only two carbines I've put significant rounds through in the last year.
 
Hey Zak

Don't mean to thread drift, but... I really like thoes pics of your 17" AR. Do you know of anywhere where I could buy just a 17" complete upper... Maybe also one in 6.5 Grendel...He he he :D
 
Was Rock River the low bidder?

Yes, they were. But, there were a lot more factors than low bid involved in DEA's decision, starting with DEA dissatisfaction with service after the sale on the Colts DEA already owned. Specifically, DEA requested a bid for additional magazines for the 2500 Colt SMG's they owned, and Colt quoted a price that was basically a "screw you, we'd rather not have to start up production of those again," price, leaving DEA with 2500 very servicable SMG's with no magazines. Colt instead, tried to sell them on just trading in all of their SMG's for new M-4's and DEA decided that if Colt didn't want to try any harder than that to meet their needs, they would hold a competition to see who did.

DEA and the FBI together, probably owned more Colt rifles and SMG's than any other law enforcement agency in the country (around 7000 M-16's, Car-15's, M-4's, M-203's and SMG's) when this competition for the supplier of the next batch of rifles was announced, and the fact that Colt couldn't close a deal to sell them more guns should tell most people that there was more going on to this sale than just the low bid.

Law enforcement sales, even to big agencies like DEA and FBI, is just a drop in the bucket to Colt compared to military sales, and like civilian sales, it doesn't appear that Colt really cares much whether it gets more of them or not. And, you can see from how often the military goes to other venders for repair of the rifles it has, that Colt doesn't try too hard on those contracts either.

Colt (and SIG) got a contract by virtute of passing the testing, but by the DEA protocol, RRA came in first. But, DEA hasn't exercised it as yet to buy any Colt rifles under it, and I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen, especially since they are pretty happy with the RRA's so far, many of which are already combat tested now, too.
 
I ordered a RRA elite car4 and am going on 10 weeks today for a 6-8 week build time. Mine was somewhat modified from stock. Hoping it gets here soon.

This is my first AR. I looked at Stag, S&W, Bushmaster, but my friendly ffl sold me on RRA.
 
I guess what I don't understand is why some think that the fact that Rock River got the contract can be construed to mean their rifles are better than competitors, if the fact that they were the low bidder is the reason they got the contract.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Rock River ARs met the government requirements, and came in with a lower bid than competitors?

I am not trying to insult Rock River. I have no experience with their product. I just don't think that because the DEA and FBI are using them necessarily means they are better.
 
[vent]

Personally, RRA gets on my nerves. Seems like every ad you see for them is bragging about the DEA contract and how good their rifles were to get it, I dont even "see" them anymore. Just like Kerry with 'nam and his three purple hearts, after a while, you dont hear it. One poster mentined a ten week wait on his rifle. I've been wating on a lower since January. I know that they make more money off of guns than they do parts, but coming up on six months, its getting rediculous. I could have finished a 10% with a chainsaw file and a hand drill by now.

The first time my dealer asked for an ETA, it was 4 to 6 weeks. Then 6 to 8. After that it was 8 to 12. At that point, I got a stripped BM lower, and instead of asking if my lower came in, I started asking my dealer if hell froze over.

Colt really doesnt care about us due to the military contracts. I'm starting to think that RRA doesnt care because of their LE contracts.

My $.02.
 
Check with this guy: http://mooneysfirearms.com/. He has good prices and is a great guy to work with.

I have a 16" RRA midlength. Great gun, work well. He had it in stock so I picked it up. If you buy the upper and lower separately I think you save on excise taxes, plus, you can match stuff and get it faster if he has uppers and lowers but not complete rifles in stock.

These guys usually have stuff in stock too. They ship the same day you place the order, if there is something in stock. http://www.lonestarwholesale.com/

Keep in mind that with the McCarthy bill, and the VT thing, people are buying ARs like crazy, so all the manufacturers are having a hard time keeping up.

Lone Gunman, in any government procurement arrangement, you first have to make it through the techical specifications part, meaning your submission has to be proven to work and be adequate for the job at hand. THEN the price stuff happens. So, RRA made it through the qualifying rounds, and then was able to offer a better price, so they were selected. Had they offered a poor product, they would not have gotten through. Without knowing if other manufacturers were disqualified on quality/function grounds, we can't say for sure that RRA was better than any of those. I personally don't care if RRA is better than any others. From what I have seen personally, they make a quality product, well respected in the industry (except by Colt fans who respect nothing other than Colt), for a decent price. That works in my book.
 
Thats exactly what I was saying. The Rock River Arms AR met the minimum government requirements (or may have exceeded them, who knows?), and were cheaper, so they got the contract.

But I don't think you can stretch this into meaning that because RRA got the contract, they made a better product.

The manufacturer of the O rings on the space shuttle rockets also met minimum government requirements, and was the lowest bidder. I don't think the Challenger astronauts would think this manufacturer made the best product though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Which 308 AR Rifle?
Replies
8
Views
740
taliv
T
K
  • Locked
Ar-10
Replies
4
Views
317
UnTainted
U
Ed
  • Locked
9mm AR 15 question
Replies
3
Views
1K
Redlg155
Redlg155
L
  • Locked
Any help for an AR Newbie?
Replies
2
Views
414
SunBear
S
E
  • Locked
An AR Guide for Dummies?
Replies
10
Views
744
lipadj46
L
Back
Top