Are Higher priced progressives really that much better?

[OldStumps]

Whiskey11,

The WWB I was quoting was $29 per 100. Reloading .40SW is a lot harder to beat commercial than the prices you quoted for your 45 by a factor of almost two. I just put what I pay into a spreadsheet and divide by rounds loaded. I have fixed costs (press, dies, primer cleaner, crimp dies...) and components (primers, powder, bullets). I need to shoot about 2000-2500 rounds of .40SW to break even and get to the point where my stuff is paid for. On the other side of your .45 ACP, I load .454 and .45LC. .454 is about $1.16 a round commercial and I will need about 700 rounds to break even. By the time I hit 5000 rounds I will be at $.31/round. I need to look at the .380 and see if it's even worth it to ever reload.

Cost per round is overall key factor to me for ever starting reloading. In many ways it's just cost cost per mile for a car. Always goes down but at some point you'll buy a new one anyway. For me the best economics are the Pro 1000. Couple of years from now I may be shooting more and want to move up. Or less and that Herter's No 3 might be just fine.

 

[EddieNFL]

When economics come into the game I need to add a little more. My Lee Pro 1000 costs $.03/round at the 5000 round point. The LNL adds $.05/round to that for $.08/round. And the Dillon 550 $.02 more cents per round bringing it up to $.10/round.

Six to eight weeks worth of loading.

 

[OldStumps]

Six to eight weeks worth of loading.

Ah, but now we come back to the OP's question. In my opinion I get the appropriate level of value with what I have acquired. I don't see a reason to spend more at this point. I remember on other forums where camera tripods were the question. Do you buy the best and use it forever and buy what will work and use it till you're ready for something better or your needs change. I bought good useable tripods then to fit my need. Since I clean cases between sizing and depriming, my use of a progressive is already atypical. I am happy to size and deprime in one step on a single stage. I am happy and feel it safer and more reliable (across all these presses) to hand prime with a hand primer. I don't like handling powder and like the progressive for that and seating and crimping. Heck I might even buy the bullet feeder for the Pro1000 cause it's only $37. I brought up economics because someone else did and I felt it important to add up everything and for me to track cost per round for the whole endeavor. That's what my spreadsheets do; you're all welcome to use back of the envelope and then forget about it. (I'm a lot more anal) Anyway, if the OP wants to stick in a case and get out a bullet with the least hassle he should buy the Dillon and be done with it (the 1050 of course as one day if he shoots enough he'll have it paid for and then be able to give it to his kids and they their kids). I don't have kids so I don't want it for anybody but me and however long I shoot. Lee Pro 1000 works for me for the forseeable future. The others aren't worth it in time or money. YMMV

 

[RustyFN]

Ah, but now we come back to the OP's question. In my opinion I get the appropriate level of value with what I have acquired. I don't see a reason to spend more at this point.

I couldn't agree more. I would love to have a progressive press but can't justify all the extra money when my Lee classic turret meets my needs fine. In fact even if I start shooting a little more I still won't need a progressive. The money I don't spend on the progressive will buy a lot of powder and primers.

 

[joed]

Yes, the Lee presses work and not everybody needs a progressive. It comes down to how many rounds you need to produce for your shooting. I was fine with a single stage for 24 years, but when I started shooting 300 rounds in a weekend that got old very fast.

What took 3 nights a week became a matter of a couple hours. The progressive gave me my life back to so I could do family things.

Currently I have 2 Dillons, a 650 and 1050 and I'm rarely shooting 300 rounds in 6 months. But I'm not going to part with my Dillons even though they spend a good portion of their time sitting idle.

There is also one other thing no one has considered which is resale. I paid about $500 for the 650 a few years ago. It's as clean as the day I got it. Anyone want to bet I can sell it for at least $500 which is what I paid? Try that with a Lee.

 

[OldStumps]

I agree that you have good resellable value in the Dillon (I doubt I could sell either of my Lees at this point for anything but scrap and they're both brand new). But you have two of these Dillons now and your needs have changed. I would say you were a perfect example of a press fitting a need and then not. And since you're not willing to sell either, those are sunk dollars not giving the value they did previously. If I had them and liked them and felt there was any chance I'd shoot more again I'd keep them too.

Hopefully you'll find time to shoot more often.

 

[Igorr]

Joed said it well. I loaded with a single stage press for over 40 years. I finally bought a Dillon 650 last year with separate tool heads and powder measures for the three pistol calibers I compete with. Now, in those calibers it only takes a few minutes to change over and I can easily load 400 rounds an hour. I still use the single stage for the low production center fire rifle work.

You cannot beat Dillon's warranty ... lifetime for the tool ...

 

[cfullgraf]

But you have two of these Dillons now and your needs have changed. I would say you were a perfect example of a press fitting a need and then not. And since you're not willing to sell either, those are sunk dollars not giving the value they did previously.

Adding a comment and different stokes for different folks.

I have many friends who become inactive in a hobby, sell everything, then buy it all back a few years later when the interest gets rekindled.

Economically, that does not make sense to me for items that don't cost anything to keep except for storage space.

In 30 years of reloading i have gone through a couple periods of inactivity. I am sure glad that I kept all my gear when I became active again.

 

[joed]

In 30 years of reloading i have gone through a couple periods of inactivity. I am sure glad that I kept all my gear when I became active again.

You've got that right! There was a period in the 1990's when I did not shoot guns for a number of years, probably 6 years. At that point all I had was a Rock Chucker, it sat on the loading bench collecting dust for a long time.

All of a sudden in 2001 there I was shooting 300 rounds a week. I continued that trend till 2007 and haven't been shooting as much as I'd like now. I occasionally roll out 1k of 9mm on the 650 but that's been at 6 month intervals thru the ammo shortage.

I've stockpiled a lot of cases. Luckily it was around 2001 when they were still cheap. I have ARMY ammo cans stored for most of the pistol rounds I shoot that could carry me for a long time.

The .44 and .45 I load on the 1050 and I haven't shot any of those since 2007. Over the winter around Xmas I was so bored that I went through all my .44 mag empty brass and loaded those up to kill the boredom. I did a run of 4k two days after Xmas.

I really can't say I'm not using the presses just that I've slowed down quite a bit with my shooting.

You should have seen me when I lived 2 miles from a range in 2005. I'd bet I was loading 500 rounds a week at that point.

 

[OldStumps]

I hadn't reloaded for ten to fifteen years. Actually got rid of brass and dies and old powder and primers. That was a actually a good thing as I have more or less changed calibers. The Herters No 3 is early 1960s I think making it almost fifty years old. The remaining dies I kept and the shell holders are that old as well. It's been well cared for and works flawlessly. I not only am only a mile from my new indoor range, but it's a buck a night to shoot and nothing for the outdoor range seven miles away except annual dues. I am greatly motivated to save money.

I guess the OP's question though was not if to go progressive, but to spend more for a better press or warranty or ...

As I read through these posts on the Dillon alone there are issues with the 550 that the 650 solves and issues with the 650 that the 550 solves and to get rid of the issues you buy the 1050 and don't have any issues. With the Hornady you have issues but less than the Lee. And with Lee, if you're not mechanically willing to fuss you have the most. I guess RCBS doesn't make a progressive because I didn't see one mentioned. Maybe they're all being used by people who don't have issues and are just loading ammo
(That was a joke)

Anyway, I haven't really put this Lee Pro 1000 to the test, but will in the coming week. I made my choices based on this forum's post, other forums I've found, and a lot of video on the web. I think I know the issues and how to deal with them. I really like the powder disk approach, but need to see how it actually works. I can tell you the shell feeder is great. One or two have mentioned the half stroke of the Hornady compared to full stroke indexing on the Lee. I am not in that much of a hurry that I have to swing things that fast. I'll get back to you on how things go. I get that Dillon catalogue every few months and have been looking it over more closely than ever. And those 500 bullets that accompany the LNL till 12-31 are enticing also.

 

[joed]

As I read through these posts on the Dillon alone there are issues with the 550 that the 650 solves and issues with the 650 that the 550 solves and to get rid of the issues you buy the 1050 and don't have any issues. With the Hornady you have issues but less than the Lee. And with Lee, if you're not mechanically willing to fuss you have the most. I guess RCBS doesn't make a progressive because I didn't see one mentioned. Maybe they're all being used by people who don't have issues and are just loading ammo

All the progressives seem to have some issue or issues till you get up in the high end units like the 1050.

I have a friend with a gun shop that reloads and sells ammo, he's using Lee equipment. Every once in awhile I'll help out and do some for him if he's falling behind. The Lee equipment works but it is no where near as fast as a 550, and if there are issues it's usually with primers. Lee just doesn't have the bells and whistles Dillon or the others have. But he's producing ammo on a Lee progressive. He's not in a hurry because he has 10 hours a day to produce ammo.

RCBS does have a progressive, and it really is a fairly good unit. It's cast iron as opposed to aluminum like Dillon and Hornady. It's not a cheap press though as I remember the price being around $900 if my memory is still good.

Back 10 years ago when I wanted a progressive I went to a reloading newsgroup. I asked many Lee owners what they thought of their presses. More then 1/2 complained about the priming system or things wearing out. Two of those asked told me to go with Dillon and avoid Lee.

Hornady owners had few complaints. At the time the LnL took 2 stations to charge the case with powder. One station belled the case while the second dumped the powder. What bothered me about the LnL was when I asked owners how many rounds their press produced in an hour none could give me an answer. That suggested they were spending time tinkering with adjustments. The only complaints I did hear were the spring that held the shells in the shell plate caused problems and sometimes cases wouldn't eject at the final station.

I found only 1 person with an RCBS progressive, an old friend in CA. His advice was buy Dillon, he hated his press.

All the Dillon owners that I corresponded with were happy with their presses. I did not hear of any issues from anyone.

All this research took about 1 month but that was my reason for buying Dillon.

Would I own a Lee or other brand? Yes, if I came across someone selling one at a good price I'd grab it and dedicate it to one cartridge decreasing conversion time on my other presses.

 

[jmorris]

All the progressives seem to have some issue or issues till you get up in the high end units like the 1050.

The 1050 has issues too.

 

[atblis]

You could actually make an argument for the 650 being a better press than the 1050.

 

[OldStumps]

With everything having issues, it appears the best road might be to decide which set of features best fits your current and planned on needs and make a purchase and a commitment to make it all work. One thing that is clear is that in the long run the per round of the press cost is really minimal compared to components. That's my plan if the first choice was wrong, and the need still was there, go to the next one. I don't think I am really convinced one way or the other on the next step if the Lee doesn't work. I like the approach I'm taking though and happy to see where this trail leads.

 

[joed]

I have to say I haven't found any issue with the 1050 in 5 years. And I've used the heck out of mine.

The only issue I have with the 650 is the primer feed but you can work around that.

As to the 550 it would be a great press with 1 more station for a powder check, its only shortcoming.

I couldn't tell you about the LnL or a Lee as I've not loaded on a LnL and seldom use a Lee.

 

[JerryM]

No issues with either my 550 or 650. Anything mechanical will give trouble sooner or later and that includes even the 1050.
Jerry

 

[Tom488]

RCBS does have a progressive, and it really is a fairly good unit. It's cast iron as opposed to aluminum like Dillon and Hornady. It's not a cheap press though as I remember the price being around $900 if my memory is still good.

Nah - $520 from Midway... or $580 for the auto-index version. Pretty comparable to a Dillon 650 for $560.

 

[jmorris]

I have to say I haven't found any issue with the 1050 in 5 years. And I've used the heck out of mine.


The only issue I have with the 650 is the primer feed but you can work around that.

Interesting, my 650's have always been 100% on primer feed; however, the plastic tip on the 1050 feedd tube has put a halt to my loading fun.

If you have been using the same one for 5 years, you should think about investing in a lotto ticket.

 

[GW Staar]

I guess RCBS doesn't make a progressive because I didn't see one mentioned. Maybe they're all being used by people who don't have issues and are just loading ammo
(That was a joke)

Peter Eick is one of those RCBS'ers "just loading ammo" (no joke) He just resupplied his APS primers for the year (75,000). (Recent THR thread)

He hit 150,000 rounds I think in 2008. His Review at that time.

Check out Gavin loading .223 using RCBS's new Rifle Bullet Feeder on RCBS's Pro 2000 press at Ultimate Reloader.com

I'm a new RCBS Pro 2000 user, going on 30 months. The only problem I've encountered is I love to tinker....so I keep adding stuff to my setup. That keeps me here and on other reloading forums. I love to pick the brains that frequent this place, use what I discover, and I enjoy sharing what I find.

Like this Hornady Bullet Feeder addition to my RCBS Pro 2000.

RCBS Progressive reloading is alive and well.

As for any press being perfect....there ain't no such thing....period. They are all fine machines, imperfections and all.