Are Varget and 4895 look-alikes?

[Captaingyro]

I have always used Varget as my only rifle powder. Recently I was persuaded to try H4895 for Garand and M1A loads, so I ordered some from PV. When I opened the jug, I noticed that the 4895 looked a lot like Varget. I sprinkled a little bit of each on a white piece of paper, and, to me at least, they were absolutely identical, even under a strong light.

I searched for this info online, and the few references I could find said that Varget and H4895 look (and smell) different from one another. Mine appear to be identical. What's the scoop? Did I get a mixed up lot (the jug was sealed normally) or do they really look that much alike?

 

[NCsmitty]

I'm not where I can check my own powders, but you need to realize that they are both extruded powders, and it may be difficult to see the differences without a microscope.
I would doubt that there is problem with the markings on the canisters.
I don't use much Varget, as my favorite powder is H4895, because it's so versatile.



NCsmitty

 

[Captaingyro]

Roger that, I realize they're both extruded powders. I'm just amazed that the grains seem to be identical: size, shape, length, and color (kind of a dirty gold color, or gold-brown).

I follow pretty strict procedures to make sure the powder in the hopper is the correct one, but it would be awfully easy to mistake one of these for the other.

If anyone owns both, I'd sure feel better knowing they're supposed to be look-alikes.

 

[Waywatcher]

I own and use both; they are extremely similar looking. If I recall correctly, Varget is a little bit more smelly or aromatic, which is all I remember right now.

I'll try measuring a few kernels with a calipers and get back to you.

But rest assured, they look nearly identical, and they may in fact have identical dimensions, we'll see.

 

[bigedp51]

Both Varget and H4895 are made by ADI in Australia

Varget = AR2208
H4895 = AR2206H

 

[Ridgerunner665]

H4895 is darker than Varget....

Varget has a greyish yellow shade to it....H4895 is pretty much black.

 

[Waywatcher]

I measured them as promised; here's the results:

Varget--0.060 long, 0.034 wide (averaged dimensions of 6-8 samples.)
H4895--0.060 long, 0.032 wide (averaged dimensions of 6-8 samples.)

The dimensions were remarkably consistent; + or - 0.001 all around.

Since I just looked at them one after the other, if I had to describe color appearance I would say :

Varget--Gray with a slight yellow tinge.
H4895--Gray with a slight green tinge.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Waywatcher's sample confirms my memory. I was going to say H4895 - darker, Varget - lighter, slightly more aromatic. Actually, I find Varget very strong smelling when I open it.

But yes, they are very similar in appearance, you're probably not going to tell them apart visually. And coincidentally, I find they work in very similar applications. IE: Shooting heavy bullet .223 or standard 150gr .30-30 loads, you can use H4895 or Varget (or Alliant RL-15 for that matter) and achieve similar results. H4895 is a bit faster burning I think, as the charge weights are typically marginally lighter than Varget charge weights.

 

[Captaingyro]

Thanks for all the responses. Waywatcher, that was some serious detail work measuring individual grains; sounds a little like determinig the sex of mosquitos.

Everyone's observations pretty much bear out my own except for Ridgerunner665; the H4895 I received is a long way from black. Since I was kind of expecting black when I opened the jug, that's what caused my initial concern.

 

[Eb1]

my lots of H4895 are more grey than black.

 

[NCsmitty]

Lot to lot differences of the powder will vary, and these differences are "blended", for lack of a better word, by the coatings that they receive as the burning deterrents to put the powder into the range of specifications for that powder.
The powder coatings actually finalize the burn rate of that batch of powder, and I'm betting color of the powder can vary in lot to lot applications too.


NCsmitty

 

[Waywatcher]

My H4895, purchased about a year ago from a store that moves inventory quite a bit (Scheel's), is not even close to black. Very much gray, with the tiniest tinge of green that's barely noticeable. Looks the same color as Varget to me from 18"+ away.

Enjoy the H4895; I prefer it over Varget. In .223, which is what I spend most of my reloading time on these days, I am getting better accuracy results, better complete powder burns, and closer to 100% case fill. (Varget typically needs compression, which I prefer not to do.) This is with bullets 55-75 grains in .223.

 

[amlevin]

All the more reason to only have ONE canister of powder out on the bench at one time with the same stuff in the dispenser/measure.

 

[Striker Fired]

My H4895 and Varget look identical also.No discernable difference in tint or color,you would not be able to tell them apart. In smell the Varget is slightly stronger but just barely.

 

[Slamfire]

Don't have pictures of Varget, but IMR 4895 and H4895 are different color. Varget is the same color as H4895, could be the same length and diameter, would have to look that up.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Sorry guys...I was thinking about IMR 4895.

I haven't used much H4895, but yes...it does look alot like Varget, as you have already established.

 

[nastynatesfish]

I run h 4895 in my 308 loads with a 190vld and they are higher velocity and lower cup pressure. I like both but only run 4895 in my 223

 

[Captaingyro]

It appears that we have achieved concensus, and I really appreciate all the trouble people went to. Varget and H4895 really are almost identical in appearance, with IMR 4895 trending more toward black.

I'm heading to the reloading bench, where I'm going to be very careful about grabbing the right jug of smokeless. Again, thank you all.