Argh! re: CDNN Investments (a bit of a rant)

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Zeede

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I know they are a great outfit and their prices are wonderful but man I really hate their attitude about shipping handguns to California. I called because I saw they had a Smith & Wesson Model 619 for sale, which I cannot find anywhere on online or locally. I asked why they wouldn't ship to California, and the guy told me it would be illegal (which it's not). I suggested shipping it to a FFL in another state, then shipping from that FFL to a local FFL here. He told me it would be collusion and then hung up.

That gets my goat.

It's not illegal to ship guns to California.
It's not illegal to buy or own a Model 619 in California.

Sorry, I am a honest guy and run an honest business, it gets my goat when someone accuses me of trying to do some shady, underhanded deal. If the FFL in California runs my background and takes my fingerprints, what is the big deal? It's not like I'm asking them to ship it illegally to my house or my office.

So, those of you who are better read on gun laws, is it illegal for a gun to be purchased by someone and shipped through an intermediary FFL? I know straw-purchases are illegal, but this isn't one. The guy paying for the gun (me) and the guy who will be owning the gun (me) are the same person.

Cameron
 
basically people don't want to deal with Cali laws, I don't. No one wants to ship anything to Cali.
 
Why don't you want to deal with California laws?

Because you don't think there's any profit/business in selling guns to California?

Because you think the laws are difficult? They are more restrictive, but not difficult to comprehend.

Because you think hanging your fellow shooters out to dry in California is going to change the laws there?

Just curious, because I don't get it. Shooters are the nicest, most giving people I've met in my various hobbies. Except when it comes to out of state people and dealing with California.

You have a right to your opinion, and I'm certainly not telling someone else who they should do business with, but I am curious as to the reasoning.

Cameron
 
I think folks don't like jumping through all the hoops required when dealing with Cali. It isn't so much as "hanging fellow shooter out to dry" as much as it is too much of a hassle to learn/comply with Cal laws.
I think I would choose not to deal with California laws if I were a FFL.
 
CDNN recently went through a lot of grief when the company/bank that handled they're credit card transactions cut them off because someone in that outfit thought that selling guns under any other then face-to-face circumstances was illegal. This was wrong of course, and they paid highly for their misjudgment when hundreds if not thousands of gun owners and firearms business canceled their accounts. There was also talk of a lawsuit.

Anyway, having been badly (and unjustifiably) burned by all of this, CDNN is now understandably careful in dealing with individuals or even dealers located in states such as California. Any profit they might make isn't worth the risk.

All of this is unfortunate for "gun people" who live in California and similar states, but that's part of the price you are going to have to pay. There is no indication that the situation will be getting any better unless there is a major overhall of the legislature.

If I may make a positive suggestion; Why not have a FFL in LA place the order? I don't think that CDNN would object to a direct order from an FFL rather then an unlicensed individual.
 
I understand dealing with CA laws is a pain in the rear, but I kinda feel that if you give up and refuse to deal with CA, then the commie legislators have "won."

I'd try to get as many legal guns into CA as I could. but then again, I'm not in gun sales, so IDK how bad it is.
 
I think that the thinking is, if we make it harder for gun owners in California to get things, you will vote out your communist government. I think you would have better luck letting Nevada annex parts of northern kali than getting a more gun friendly government.
 
California has a number of cities that seemingly ignore the preemption clause in the Cal. Constitution. San Francisco comes readily to mind. They also have an ever-changing "allowable" handgun list. I say ever-changing because there is a time limit placed on the list, after which guns must be re-submitted.

All of this leads any company doing business with California faced with a snake-pit of variables. Some just don't want to jump through that mess. As you're going to have to transfer the gun via an FFL, just have HIM order it from CDNN, and you'll more than likely get it, as the onus is then on the FFL to observe the laws.
 
Zeede, I handle shipments to California from CDNN. Call them back and ask for Steve or Keith. Tell them you are in California and to ship the gun to Freakshow Manufacturing in Michigan. They do this all the time. I ship 10-12 shipments per week to California.

I charge $20 plus shipping my services. Check my site to see if I have your accepting CA dealer on file. If not, give me their phone number and I can arrange for their FFL and CFD number.
 
Old Fluff, CDNN will NOT ship to California due to the CFLC law in place. There are a few sales guys that know the deal and send the guns to me at the customer's request.
 
Old Fuff: As freakshow10mm said, CDNN's policy regarding California also applies to FFLs. In California, the only way you can have a gun shipped to your front door is if you are a FFL, or if you've jumped through the hoops with the CMP, and you're into M1 Garands, M1 Carbines and such.

Scanr: Yes, and I'm always boggled at the logic of that. That'd be like if your child got bad grades, so you decided you wouldn't let them have textbooks anymore until their grades got better :rolleyes:

Anyhow, thanks for the responses. It's depressing seeing the angst on some of the GunBroker listings, as it's completely illogical. I can understand not wanting to do business because you don't have the time to keep up w/ the ever-changing laws here, but thinking that cutting us off is going to somehow give us the majority of votes in this state is just...inane!

Cameron
 
It's the same logic that some people use when paypal is involved. It's perfectly legal to purchase any firearm related parts except the receiver through paypal, and because of this policy many have stopped dealing with PP completely. they don't want our business and we won't give it to them
 
California has a number of cities that seemingly ignore the preemption clause in the Cal. Constitution. San Francisco comes readily to mind. They also have an ever-changing "allowable" handgun list. I say ever-changing because there is a time limit placed on the list, after which guns must be re-submitted.
Click to expand...
(1) There is no pre-emption in the constitution. There IS a statute that refers to registration that 'occupies the whole field'. -- Government Code:
53071. It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole
field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal
Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local
regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in
Section 1721 of the Labor Code.
Click to expand...
(Note the difference between that and the next section:
53071.5. By the enforcement of this section, the Legislature
occupies the whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or
possession of imitation firearms, as defined in Section 12550 of the
Penal Code, and that section shall preempt and be exclusive of all
regulations relating to the manufacture, sale, or possession of
imitation firearms,
Click to expand...
- state has control of sale and possession of imitation firearms, while it does NOT have exclusive control over sale and possession of real firearms.)

(2) the date on the Roster does NOT mean the guns must be resubmitted; the date is the time the manufacturer must send in another $200 for that model to continue to play. See link.
 
I sell gun parts. I won't sell ANYTHING to California. YOU change YOUR laws.
Click to expand...
Working on it. Takes time - years to get here, years to get back out of it.

In the meanwhile, except for the silly large-capacity magazine law, California law really doesn't deal with parts. If it were to your taste, California law should not be a barrier to you taking money from us.

Your business, your call; I wish you well either way.
 
Because you think hanging your fellow shooters out to dry in California is going to change the laws there?
Click to expand...

Perhaps that might just movitvate them to get up and fix the problem. Or perhaps motivate them to move away to a better state.
 
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