At what point can you be called a good shooter?

[schadenfreude]

What would be the litmus test? I'm not talking about safety or tactical stuff or CQC but marksmanship.

What size group with how many shots at what distance?

What do the police and other groups require?

I know you never stop learning but i would like some goals to build toward.


Thanks

 

[ACP230]

Cooper wrote:

"A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle." The Art Of The Rifle, Chapter One.

I think that goes for handguns and shotguns too.

I have run into only a few guns that won't shoot better than I can shoot them, at least some of the time.

If you are shooting Bullseye pistol there are stages set up by the NRA, Pro Marksman, Marksman, etc, etc.

HP rifle shooters work up a similar ladder, all the way to Distinguished Rifleman.

A good hunting shot makes a lot of one shot kills on deer or small game.

Lots of variables. HTH.

 

[LeonCarr]

No matter how good you are, just keep shooting . Then you can call yourself a good shot. In my experience no matter how good you think you are, there is somebody better. If you get beat by somebody, shoot until you can beat him/her, wait for the next person to beat you, outshoot him/her, etc. You never stop learning.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Jammer Six]

I knew I was a carpenter when I didn't have any more questions about whether or not I was a carpenter.

What I'm saying is that when you become truly good at something, you will know.

 

[incursion]

If you can shoot 1" group at 15 yards free hand, then you are good in my eyes.

 

[Texas Bob]

When you believe in yourself "everytime", right before you pull the trigger, you are a good shooter. I don't remember who said it but the following applies : "An amateur practices until he gets it right, a professional practices until he can't get it wrong."

 

[swingset]

I put a very definate line in the sand of a skilled shooter compared to an amateur. Amateurs all make a very similar mistake, and that's flyers and the occasional WAY wild shot. Skilled shooters nearly never do.

Kind of like a golfer. New golfers occasionally whiff, even if they're decent at it. Tiger Woods doesn't whiff. Ever.

When you eliminate wild shots and can consistently make tight groups despite the conditions, you are skilled.

 

[esheato]

When you eliminate wild shots and can consistently make tight groups despite the conditions , you are skilled.

I think the line above is what we're trying to get at....DESPITE THE CONDITIONS....whether you're in the mood to shoot or not...whether the weather is nice or not...whether your family was just in a horrible car accident (added for emphasis....not trying to be crude)

All that stuff above shouldn't matter....when you go to the range, you should be in the mindset to perform at the peak of your game...no matter what. Be able to turn it on and off like a switch. That's what I consider a good shooter....sure there are a lot of skills that have to mastered and become automatic, but having the right mindset to utilize them is paramount.

esheato...

 

[Smoke]

When you believe in yourself "everytime", right before you pull the trigger, you are a good shooter.

Some wisdom in those words.

I thought I was a shooter because I could aoutperform everyone I knew....then I met some new people . All of a sudden I wasn't as good as I thought I was.

Smoke

 

[Ankeny]

What a tough question. I suppose it depends on what you are doing and what your goals happen to be. I consider myself a pretty decent USPSA shooter, but I know that in comparison to really good shooters I still suck.

In my view, a person knows they are on the road to becoming a good shooter when they have a grasp of the fundamentals and have really good technique such as grip, balance, stance, visual awareness, and fire control. No matter what the shooting sport, a person isn't really "good" until they know, with all certainty, where the bullet will strike at the exact instant the gun fires. When you know what you can do, and trust yourself that what you do will be good enough, you are on the way.

 

[Correia]

About 90% of the shooters I know who think they are "good" are what I would consider competant. The other 10% is actually pretty good. The first 90% doesn't realize they ain't good until they shoot with somebody from that 10%. I'm competant, but working on it.

 

[Ankeny]

Good, competent, decent...it's all relative. Take my favorite sport for instance, USPSA Practical Shooting. The average B class shooter is what we would consider pretty decent. However, the average B class shooter is in a league way beyond what 99% or more of the handgun owners in this country will ever accomplish.

 

[dairycreek]

You are a good shooter when..........

You know the difference between what you would like to be able to do and that which you are able to do . To get from what you are able to do to the place where you can shoot the way you want to takes some study and lots of practice, practice, practice. Note: You may never get to where you want to be but, then, that's the fun of it - at least for me. Good shooting

 

[redneck2]

Easy answer...

enter some competitions of your choice

if your name's consistently at the top of the list, it answers your question

if it's not, it also answers your question

 

[PCRCCW]

When you are better than the people you shoot with that day...........

Shoot well...........

 

[Jeeper]

Correia nailed it.

By the same token competition shooters are generally miles ahead of plinkers. I completely agree that a B class USPSA shooter can usually outshoot pretty much every non-competitive handgunner out there. Rifle competitors are the same.

 

[jar]

When most people start to feel safer out of your lane than clustered around the target, you're well on the way.

 

[JohnKSa]

Been thinking about this and I think I've got an answer.

If you can consistently post 1" slow fire groups at 15 yards.

If you can empty the cylinder or clip of a self-defense gun and keep all the rounds in the 10 ring of a D1 target at 10 yards shooting at the rate of 2 shots a second.

Then you can consider yourself "good".

What do the rest of you think--is this at least in the ballpark?

 

[NoBite]

Schadenfreude, I get the impression you are looking for a definitive measure. At a defensive pistol class, our instructor told us we should strive to be able to put all our shots into a pattern that can be covered by our fist. That was our measuring stick at all distances that we shot, from arm's length to 50 feet. Slow fire or rapid fire. Strong hand or weak hand. One hand or two. For defensive shooting, I think that is a very good objective. For bullseye shooting, that would suck. But, I'm not a bullseye shooter! It may sound easy. I don't think it's easy. Give it a try. When you can put five shots into a group that size, try to do it faster or weak hand only.

For defensive shooting purposes, use a target with no discernable bullseye. You are shooting center of mass or head shots. Try on the move, behind cover, etc. Then, when you approach the target, take a look at your grouping. Can you cover it with your fist?

There are lots of IDPA-style drills out there. Try 'em on your target. Then, take a look at your grouping. If you can cover it with your fist, you are a good shot in my book.

 

[Ankeny]

What an interesting thread. So, how many of you guys consider yourself good?

 

[Monkeyleg]

JohnKSa: "If you can consistently post 1" slow fire groups at 15 yards."

Thank you very much! You've now consigned me to the ranks of "mediocre shooters" for the rest of my life.

 

[JackM]

A cousin of mine was shooting along side a guy name of Blankenship. He adjusted his sights because he was shooting low 10s instead of Xs.

Bye
Jack

 

[Hawk]

Not yet...

When you eliminate wild shots and can consistently make tight groups despite the conditions , you are skilled.

I rather like the above appraisal.

I'd always been told "accuracy first; speed will follow". I was having trouble with both when the guy in the next lane commences to air out a .416 Rigby (and yes, my indoor range does allow that). Both accuracy and speed went out the window (mine, that is).

Guess I'm not there yet. Will report back if the sit changes.

 

[Ankeny]

schadenfreude:

Time for a straight answer. The best Web site for practical pistol shooting is without a doubt
Brian Enos' Forums . There is an entire section on skills and another section on classifier scores. Surf on over there and you will get a pretty decent idea of what "good" looks like in USPSA type shooting. Practical shooting has a lot of emphasis on speed.

The problem with asking a question like yours is you will get such a broad spectrum of answers. Guys will remember their tightest groups, not what they can do cold and on demand. They will also remember their fastest times not their par times. Then there are the folks who just peddle BS.

Like I said before, a good pistol shooter is one who has an understanding of the fundamentals and has developed solid technique. Accuracy and speed can then be developed.

 

[Penforhire]

I know you're mostly talking target shooting but the question has an interesting added dimension if taken to mean "self-defense" shooting too.

You can train for many years but when S.H.T.F. some people have a panic response. Not just in shooting but in other stressful activities too. But I imagine being shot at is one of the highest possible stressors. So you could be a masterful shooter but if tunnel-vision and hyper-ventilation hit hard in your first gunfight you would not act as a skilled shooter, even if you won.

Yeah, good training tries to simulate combat conditions. But the simulation always lacks some of the reality of being attacked by someone else intent on doing you harm.

So all I'm thinking here is, you can't ever say you're a good self-defense shooter if you're unproven in combat. That's why we have so much more respect for trainers who've been there and done that. I assume that's also some of the knock against practical shooting competition as a measure of the shooter.