ATF agents showed up at my house?

[alpha6164]

I come home thursday to find a card on my front door. The card is what appeared to be an official ATF business card with the agents name on there. There is a hand written note on there that states, "Please call me". I called the number immediately, and its a voicemail that states , " this is agent Bill XXXX with ATF, please your message, beeeeeeeeeeeep" My neighbor states that just an hour before that he saw an unmarked blue government type car with two guys in suits at my front door.

I left a message and friday morning I get a call from the guy who announces himself as the agent. He says that he wants to talk to me in person and that I am "not in trouble or anything" but that he just wants to talk to me for a couple of minutes. He asked if i was available later that day, and I told him that he can come to my office. He said if he can make it that day ,that he would call before stopping by.

Just to give you a little background, i am a US citizen with middle-easter (Persian) background/last name. I am a lawful person, and practice as a physician and own my own medical practice. The only thing I can think of is that I have purchased a few guns over the last year and obtained by concealed weapon license.

Seven months ago i purchased an HKP7M8, a POF AR15, and a Kahr PM9. Last month i went to my local gun shop, and in one sitting ended up buying another Kahr PM9, 2 HK P7PSPs, and an HK Mk23 (socom).

Do you think that the purchase of (4) guns or the entire collection in a short period set off a flag somewhere? That is about the only thing i can of think of. I am going to call the guy again on monday and find out why he never showed up.

 

[trueblue1776]

Multiple purchases are flagged, nothing to worry about. The stormtroopers just want to chat.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

My understanding is that almost anytime someone buys more than one handgun in a day it throws up a red flag and they almost always contact the purchaser... just to make sure it's not a straw purchase I guess... Happened to a guy I worked with once and I have heard of it happening to others as well.

 

[Freeze N]

Mutiple purchase probably threw up a flag. I have heard of the ATF making visits for this in the past. More than anything they want to make sure you are not straw purchasing. Just my .02

 

[FieroCDSP]

PANIC!!!! No, not really. It's just a check-up, as stated above. I've never phoned in a handgun check, only Long guns. Does the handgun check associate your name with a number of handguns? I know long guns don't. I'm also curious to know how many actual violations or evil-doers they actually catch like this.

 

[Deanimator]

Do you think that the purchase of (4) guns or the entire collection in a short period set off a flag somewhere? That is about the only thing i can of think of. I am going to call the guy again on monday and find out why he never showed up.

That's probably the reason.

Here's some advice to you: Do NOT talk to him or anyone else without a lawyer present. It could keep you out of jail, whether you've actually done anything wrong or not.

The BATF(E) has a long history of entrapment, perjury and racial bias. They are NOT your friends. It's a roll of the dice whether the person who contacted you has a commitment to obeying the law, never mind that he is even a decent human being.

Do NOT talk to them without a lawyer present. Have the meeting at your lawyer's office. Subject to state law, record the conversation, and TELL him you're recording it. If he doesn't agree to that, tell him the meeting's over and to have a nice day.

My lawyer's had dealings with them in the past and they usually try to pull the Jack Bauer act. A well informed lawyer can deflate their egos like a balloon in seconds.

If there's nothing to it, your lawyer will know pretty quickly. If they're looking for a patsy, he'll keep you from incriminating yourself. Remember, there's ABSOLUTELY no way that having the benefit of competent counsel can POSSIBLY make things worse.

 

[Quiet]

As what others have posted before.

It's just the Feds wanting to ask some questions about your multiple firearms transactions.

FFL dealers are required to report to the BATFE whenever someone buys more than 1 handgun in a 5 day period. [18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3), 27 CFR 478.126a]

So, the BATFE wanting to do a meet & greet, is them doing their jobs by following up on your multiple handgun purchases (you buying the Kahr PM9, 2 HK P7PSPs & HK Mk23 all in one sitting).

 

[Outlaws]

You did nothing illegal and hey have no legal grounds to force a conversation. Don't bother with it. Find the number of a good lawyer though in case they persist.

 

[Zoogster]

The bombings in the UK recently were done primarily by doctors of middle eastern decent.

You being a physician of middle eastern decent, doing anything that red flags anything is likely to get you investigated.

For all they know you are training for a way to be involved in a mass killing (of course in a no firearms allowed zone where resistance would be limited.)


So the combination of recent terror attack involving primarily multiple physicians of middle eastern decent, and you purchasing multiple weapons in a short time has people wanting to talk with you.

 

[PracticeFreedom]

That's probably the reason.

Here's some advice to you: Do NOT talk to him or anyone else without a lawyer present. It could keep you out of jail, whether you've actually done anything wrong or not.

The BATF(E) has a long history of entrapment, perjury and racial bias. They are NOT your friends. It's a roll of the dice whether the person who contacted you has a commitment to obeying the law, never mind that he is even a decent human being.

Do NOT talk to them without a lawyer present. Have the meeting at your lawyer's office. Subject to state law, record the conversation, and TELL him you're recording it. If he doesn't agree to that, tell him the meeting's over and to have a nice day.

My lawyer's had dealings with them in the past and they usually try to pull the Jack Bauer act. A well informed lawyer can deflate their egos like a balloon in seconds.

If there's nothing to it, your lawyer will know pretty quickly. If they're looking for a patsy, he'll keep you from incriminating yourself. Remember, there's ABSOLUTELY no way that having the benefit of competent counsel can POSSIBLY make things worse.

I'd have to agree. About 5 years ago (lived in Illinois back then), I bought a mail-order 50BMG upper for an AR-15 (from watson's weapons). A few days after it was scheduled to be delivered (it never came) I got a "visit" from a local plain-clothes detective, and 8--(yes 8) BATFE agents dressed in full mall-ninja tactical gear. They asked to come in, I said "No, I'll come out" Which, after I did, they started asking me all kinds of crazy questions. Stuff like "Do you make full-auto AR-15 conversions?" or "Why are you buying such a larger caliber rifle?" and other nonsense. After some back and forth, they produced a polaroid of my upper (taken out of the box) and said it broke out of the box at UPS whereupon, UPS called the police.

It was nothing, but they tried "fishing" over and over with loaded questions. Knowing what I know now, I'd never have said 1 word to them without counsel. I am most certainly NOT a criminal, but they didn't seem to care about that at the time, they only wanted to entrap me in some half-a$$ed confession. Eventually, they realised I did nothing illiegal, and left. After about 2 more weeks, UPS delivered my re-wrapped upper and my match ammo--which was 4 rounds per box short

 

[AK103K]

My understanding is that almost anytime someone buys more than one handgun in a day it throws up a red flag and they almost always contact the purchaser...

I've bought multiple handguns (as well as long guns) in one day, more than a few times too, and have never had any kind of visit, or even a phone call.

 

[redranger1]

I cant help but to wonder if this sort of a situation might be a set up to be robbed by some low lifes that know you have guns. Its a shame how in todays society we have to consider these sort of situations but local law enforcment and a lawyer might not be a bad idea.

 

[Big Daddy K]

Similar Thread

Didnt we talk about something like this a while back?

 

[ZeSpectre]

A little common sense advice for you (you can take it or leave it as you please).

1) Probably just a standard check on someone making multiple purchases in a short period. BUT it is OFFICIAL business, don't let anyone fool you into thinking it's just a social call.

2) You probably won't need it but have a lawyers number ready to call. Decide ahead of time if you want to "chat". Personally I'd say I'm busy. If they have legal grounds to check my life they can produce a warrant.

3) If you do decide to "chat" remember the Fifth Amendment. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. You have a legal right to stop answering questions at any time regardless of pressure applied.

4) If you do decide to "chat" do it away from your residence (or they'll ask for a glass of water, where the bathroom is, etc, and use that to look around). If they wish to examine your house/residence they should have a warrant to do so. Meet them at city hall or the police station.

No need to get excessively paranoid about the whole thing but you should definitely cover your backside. There are an awful lot of innocent people in jail right now because they figured "hey, I'm honest, I have nothing to fear".

Again, just my opinion.

Oh, and please post a followup to let us know what happens, what you did, and how it all turned out.

 

[bluetopper]

Thank goodness the ATF IS monitoring stuff like this. That's why we pay them.
No offense to you or anyone else, but the terrorism threat is real.

 

[Just Jim]

The ATFE has becme very active as of late. I have several friends with gun businesses that have been visited within the last couple of months. Their books and who they sold to was gone through with a fine tooth comb.

jj

 

[Outlaws]

Thank goodness the ATF IS monitoring stuff like this. That's why we pay them.
No offense to you or anyone else, but the terrorism threat is real.

Terrorism isn't a serious problem. Terrorism is a fallacy of big government wanting more control. 911 was only as big as it was because the government disarmed us and then taught us to do nothing until the "authorities" arrive to save the day.

Thank goodness when the ATF asks questions we can still say, "............................. ........."

 

[GunTech]

Just remember, the first test you have to pass is the attitude test. This is true when dealing with any LEO. If you act like you are guilty, they will treat you the same way. If you talk to them it's more than likely that will be the end of things. At any time you are uncomfortable with the conversation, you can leave. If they don't let you leave, you are in effect under arrest. Stop talking and demand a lawyer. Ask to speak to the RAC or SAC and make your demand for council known.

It you really want to freak people out, bring a tape recorder, and ask if they mind you taping the conversion. If they object, tell them to contact your lawyer, then leave.

Remember - LEOs have no way of knowing you are a good guy. 90% of the people they interact with are lying scumbag criminals. Your first interaction with them will make the put you in one of two categories - scum bag or citizen. If you give them attitude, you will initially be placed in the former category.

Most ATF angents, Like FBI and other agency officers are just tryiong to do their job. There are certainly asshats, just like there are in any other agencies. Use common sense.

 

[jeff-10]

That isn't true. The FBI monitors terrorists on American soil.

The FBI, ATF, DEA, IRS and just about any other federal agency with special agents monitors for terroist activity. Not just the FBI.

 

[trueblue1776]

Remember - LEOs have no way of knowing you are a good guy. 90% of the people they interact with are lying scumbag criminals. Your first interaction with them will make the put you in one of two categories - scum bag or citizen. If you give them attitude, you will initially be placed in the former category.

The one guy I met in 7 years that I knew was a liar ended up having proof he was telling the truth. We aren't all paranoid, some of us treat it as a 9-5 with a gun on your hip.

 

[Outlaws]

The FBI, ATF, DEA, IRS and just about any other federal agency with special agents monitors for terroist activity. Not just the FBI.

DEA? I guess if you consider drug cartels "terrorist." They are just shady businesses with (vicious) strong arm tactics.

Everyone is a terrorist. I am a terrorist. I support the constitution and am against the UN. Apparently the FBI considers that a red flag, and for that, I consider them and all involved "terrorists."

 

[Prince Yamato]

The bombings in the UK recently were done primarily by doctors of middle eastern decent.

You being a physician of middle eastern decent, doing anything that red flags anything is likely to get you investigated.

For all they know you are training for a way to be involved in a mass killing (of course in a no firearms allowed zone where resistance would be limited.)

Bingo. Don't feel too badly. If you're not guilty, I wouldn't worry about the meeting with the ATF agent. Contrary to what the tinfoil hat crowd claims, they're not out to get you. I wouldn't worry about the lawyer unless they charge you with something. In that case, you can always get the lawyer later. If you show up with a lawyer, it looks like you're guilty of something. In all my dealings with the ATF, I've only encountered pleasant people. They're not boogeymen, they're normal people who happen to work for a branch of the government we are rightly conditioned to despise.

I honestly wonder if alcohol and cigarette aficionados freak out about ATF visits as half as much as we gun people do.

 

[SG Merc]

The ATFE has becme very active as of late. I have several friends with gun businesses that have been visited within the last couple of months. Their books and who they sold to was gone through with a fine tooth comb.

The ATF sending agents to check the inventory of gun dealers isn't new.

From my own personal memory (which isn't that great) I had agents over the house way back in the 80s (one of my parents was a Class III FFL).

alpha6164, you've bought a lot of hardware, chances are the advice you've been getting about the reason for the visit is correct. I wouldn't worry too much (though by all means be prepared as you've also been warned to).

 

[Kentak]

"Persian" background, as in Iranian. Yeah, I can see where the name plus the gun purchases raised red flags. Talk to them and be forthright. I'm sure everything will be okay. Let us know how it goes.

K

 

[RNB65]

My advice is to ignore them and if they persist contact a lawyer.