ATF Asking for more money

[cavman]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/V/VIOLENT_CRIME?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



ATF chief: Crime rose as cities' funding dropped

By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer
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FBI Preliminary Crime Report, Jan.-June 2005


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The director of the ATF says violent crime has increased in some cities in part because local police are too cash-strapped to fight it. The comments by Michael J. Sullivan, acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, echo pleas by mayors across the country for more federal dollars to combat crime.

In an interview Monday with The Associated Press, Sullivan called battling violent crime the No. 1 priority of ATF and said the agency is trying to help cities with federal task forces and technology. But Sullivan also said that many cities no longer have the police manpower to respond to calls as quickly as they once did.

The most recent crime data also indicates, however, that the overall number of violent crimes are on the downswing after increasing during the previous two years.

© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

[Josh Aston]

I know a great place to get more money for the local police. Disband the ATF and give their budget to the local cops.

 

[TexasRifleman]

In an interview Monday with The Associated Press, Sullivan called battling violent crime the No. 1 priority of ATF

Yep, stopping violent crime one gun show at a time.......

 

[El Tejon]

Sullivan called battling violent crime the No. 1 priority of ATF and said the agency is trying to help cities with federal task forces and technology

Too bad F Troop has nothing to do with battling crime and is nothing more than tax clerks with guns and an agenda.

 

[romma]

These people operate way outside the law too much of the time.

No love lost here...

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Open up the NFRTR for machine guns, and collect transfer taxes!

What an idea!

 

[Hoppy590]

Open up the NFRTR for machine guns, and collect transfer taxes!

serious. also stop banning imported guns that you could be collecting fees on.

oh and this goes to all police and .gov. wanna save money? stop buying APC's and spending millions on toilet seats. return to the concept of appropriate spending.

 

[gunshow]

In an interview Monday with The Associated Press, Sullivan called battling violent crime the No. 1 priority of ATF

Hmm, so is THAT why you're spending millions to harass Red's Trading Post mr sullivan, even though no violent crime was facilitated by Reds? Since violent crime is your "number 1 priority," is this why you've engaged in terrorist attacks against Cavalry Arms and KT Ordnance (no violent crime there either)?

Most violent crime is a direct result of idiotic drug prohibition. I point this out because violent crime is the popular excuse to ban our guns. End prohibition, end the war on americans possessing CERTAIN drugs, and you'll end a majority of violent crime (but then government won't have an excuse to spend billions fighting an unwinable war and it won't have an excuse to shred the 4th and 10th amendments).

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Open up the NFRTR for machine guns, and collect transfer taxes!

+3 Here Here I support this 100%

Allow import too, they'd make a killing on the Glock 18 transfers.

You do know Congresscritters have to do this though right?

 

[romma]

You do know Congresscritters have to do this though right?

All they will do is print more inflated paper, and maybe tax us more.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The BATFE should be taken completely out of the firearms realm. There's no justification for federal government intrusion into the right to keep and bear arms.

 

[El Tejon]

What can we do to ensure that ATFE does not receive any money?

Call and write your Congressperson today.

 

[hotpig]

Too bad F Troop has nothing to do with battling crime and is nothing more than tax clerks with guns and an agenda.

This shows how little most people know. These non LE office personnel that inspect and collect taxes are not the ones they want more funding for.

The real ATF guys are on the street with us locals fighting crime.

Most of their work involves the war on drugs and the war on terrorism.

It may be a disappointment to some but the ATF is not lurking around all of the gun shows. They do not have enough people or money to mess around like that.

 

[Wheeler44]

BATFE outta $$$$$$$, impossible look at the taxes on their other fine products.....

 

[gunshow]

The real ATF guys are on the street with us locals fighting crime.

Most of their work involves the war on drugs and the war on terrorism.

Both of those are totally UNwinable and are frauds.

It may be a disappointment to some but the ATF is not lurking around all of the gun shows. They do not have enough people or money to mess around like that.

Wow, that is some serious denial you've got going on there. They sure have plenty of "people" and "money" though to attack, steal inventory, and NOT CHARGE KT Ordnance, Cavalry Arms, and many other innocent people

 

[TexasRifleman]

It may be a disappointment to some but the ATF is not lurking around all of the gun shows. They do not have enough people or money to mess around like that.

Maybe you should ask some of their victims if that is the case.

Call Cavalry Arms and see how that goes.

Call Red's Trading Post and let us know how that 'war on drugs' is going.

Call famed gunsmith Jim Clark and ask about how installing one Ruger barrel got him threatened with 6 felonies by an ATF agent claiming he was "manufacturing defense items".

If they don't have any manpower for gunshows maybe you can explain why Congress investigated them for illegally seizing over 50 guns at a Virginia gunshow, guns they later returned with no charges filed against the owners. Congress found this had occurred at at least 7 more gunshows in Virginia.

A Firearms Task Force in Pittsburgh was collecting 4473's from dealers illegally, then going to the purchasers homes and asking to see the guns.
By the way, this was only done to gun purchasers who were under 30 and Black.

This list can keep going for a while but I am tired of typing.

This shows how little most people know.

Oh I think we know quite a lot more than you think.

 

[El Tejon]

The real ATF guys are on the street with us locals fighting crime.

If you define "crime" as "gun ownership by law-abiding American citizens" then we agree.

ATFE, whose function was performed by the IRS originally, is nothing more than a tax agency. When a bureaucracy loses sight of its goal, it redoubles its efforts.

This shows how little most people know.

I know plenty, thank you. BTW, only time I have seen ATFE testify in court, state or federal, has been in a record keeping capacity.

I know all about ATFE's illegal projects ("Pittsburght Project" as mentioned earlier or their registration efforts as they admitted in Congress and national television). I know that ATFE uses increased funding to expand their illegal projects and not to combat "street crime".

We need to fight this at every step in the appropriations process. To quote the Romans, "ATF must be destroyed" and salt be spread upon the land where their offices now sit.

 

[siglite]

Sent to all my congresscritters:

I see that BATFE (big surprise) is asking for more funding. Given congress' repeated blind eyes to BATFE abuses, any vote by you to increase their funding, or do anything with them short of disbanding them, will ensure the absence of my vote for you at the ballot.

 

[csmkersh]

Last time the ATF had a big push for funding, they gave us Waco...
​

 

[GunTech]

Too bad F Troop has nothing to do with battling crime and is nothing more than tax clerks with guns and an agenda.

When BATFE became part of Justice, all the 'tax clerks' went to Treasury's Tax and Trade Bureau.

 

[ProficientRifleman]

TexasRifleman said:

Maybe you should ask some of their victims if that is the case.

Call Cavalry Arms and see how that goes.

Call Red's Trading Post and let us know how that 'war on drugs' is going.

Call famed gunsmith Jim Clark and ask about how installing one Ruger barrel got him threatened with 6 felonies by an ATF agent claiming he was "manufacturing defense items".

If they don't have any manpower for gunshows maybe you can explain why Congress investigated them for illegally seizing over 50 guns at a Virginia gunshow, guns they later returned with no charges filed against the owners. Congress found this had occurred at at least 7 more gunshows in Virginia.

A Firearms Task Force in Pittsburgh was collecting 4473's from dealers illegally, then going to the purchasers homes and asking to see the guns.
By the way, this was only done to gun purchasers who were under 30 and Black.

This list can keep going for a while but I am tired of typing.

El Tejon said:

I know plenty, thank you. BTW, only time I have seen ATFE testify in court, state or federal, has been in a record keeping capacity.

I know all about ATFE's illegal projects ("Pittsburght Project" as mentioned earlier or their registration efforts as they admitted in Congress and national television). I know that ATFE uses increased funding to expand their illegal projects and not to combat "street crime".

We need to fight this at every step in the appropriations process. To quote the Romans, "ATF must be destroyed" and salt be spread upon the land where their offices now sit.

Stop it!

Stop it now! No cop bashing!

If you refuse to notice those incidents, then....well... they didn't happen!

Even if they did happen, don't you understand the officers meant well?

Don't you know they're all men in white hats?

 

[GunTech]

ATFE, whose function was performed by the IRS originally, is nothing more than a tax agency. When a bureaucracy loses sight of its goal, it redoubles its efforts.

Dear experts.

1. It's ATF or BATFE, not ATFE or BATF. ATF is the official 3 letter designation. The agency name is the Bureau of alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives.

ATF is generally considered to have begun as the Bureau of Prohibition, charged with enforcement of the Volstead act. Elliot Ness is regarded by the agencies as one of it's heros and founders. After the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, The Bureau of Prohibition became the Alcohol Tax Unit of the Bureau of Revenue. Tobacco tax responsibility was added to the ATUs mission in the 1950s. With the passage of GCA'68, enforcement of the new laws was given to a rechristened Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, which was created as a separate agency within treasury by Nixon.

In the post 9/11 reorganization of Federal law enforcement agencies, ATF was moved to justice and given authority over explosives as well. ATF had already been involved in federal arson and explosives cases for many years and this merely formalized things.

ATF agents are not tax accountants. New agents attend the same training academy at Glynco (FLETC) as all other federal agents except FBI and DEA, who are trained at Quantico. After completing the standard Federal 'basic', agents then attend NAT school for training specific to ATF

As a former FFL, and someone married to a Federal LEO, I have seen ATF at close range. Certainly, there are questionable cases - just like there are with agencies like the FBI. What you rarely hear about is the number of Gang-Bangers, arsonists and others who have been captured by ATF.

ATF does serve as an important whipping boy for organizations like the NRA and GOA. Reagan, in his first term, suggested to the NRA that he would be willing to eliminate the ATF. Naturally, the NRA made certain that this did not happen, because without the boogeyman of the ATF, how would they get members to continue to make those donations?

ATF, like every other federal agency, is subject to political pressure, and often it's actions are politically motivated - just like IRS, FBI, etc. Look at any Federal Agency and I bet I can find several dozen cases of misuse of authority, incompetence, etc. I can also find thousands of unpublicized cases where bad people were rightly sent to jail.

As a rule, gun owners only here about the bad stuff about ATF from NRA or GOA, because that' what makes you put a check in that envelope they send you.

If you really want to take aim at the problem, look to your representatives in Congress, and keep in mind that very few of them are friendly.

GHWB signed the assault rifle import ban
GWB supported DC in the Heller case
McCain-Feingold anyone?
Remember McCain and the 'gun show loophole'?
And these are supposed to be pro-gun folks

 

[siglite]

ATF agents are not tax accountants. New agents attend the same training academy at Glynco (FLETC) as all other federal agents except FBI and DEA, who are trained at Quantico. After completing the standard Federal 'basic', agents then attend NAT school for training specific to ATF

Duly noted. Perhaps we should not refer to them as tax accountants, but instead tax ninjas.

 

[res1b3uq]

They should have been disbanded immediately after Waco.

 

[TexasRifleman]

As a former FFL, and someone married to a Federal LEO, I have seen ATF at close range. Certainly, there are questionable cases - just like there are with agencies like the FBI. What you rarely hear about is the number of Gang-Bangers, arsonists and others who have been captured by ATF.

Yes, the fact that their Tech Branch defined ALL 14 inch shoestrings as machineguns notwithstanding, making every kid with a pair of Nikes a felon for several months.

No, they are perfect just like every other government agency and they deserve bigger budgets and more power; less oversight and more secrecy.

Sounds like a plan.

ATF agents are not tax accountants. New agents attend the same training academy at Glynco (FLETC) as all other federal agents except FBI and DEA, who are trained at Quantico. After completing the standard Federal 'basic', agents then attend NAT school for training specific to ATF

Who cares? I'm not sure what that is supposed to have to do with anything at all. It doesn't change the fact that this agency has a long history of very well documented abuses of citizens rights regarding the Second Amendment and you're going to have a damned hard time defending those actions.

Whether or not they have re-orged after 9/11, whether or not some of their agents are even nice people, whether or not they changed their name; none of that changes the fact that here, on a pro 2A gun board, we tend to be VERY critical of ANYONE that is attempting to impact those rights in ANY manner.

We DO write our Congress critters but to say that ATF is innocent and just "here to help" is ridiculous on the face of it.

I don't have to be told by NRA or GOA that this agency has violated the rights of citizens right and left over the years, and continues to do so today.