Sig brace and an 80% lower
The moment you attach and intend to use the Sig Arm Brace as a shoulder stock.dogmush ........So tell me, in that situation, what exact act mamade the NFA firearm?
No they don't.dogmush Also: what? Those letters explicitly state my argument. That an otherwise non NFA firearm could be reclassified as an NFA firearm depending on how it's used, with no physical change to the firearm.
dogtown tom said:The moment you attach and intend to use the Sig Arm Brace as a shoulder stock.
dogtown tom said:No they don't.
Your quote:
a firearm measureing greater than 26" in length may properly be classified as an "AOW" if it otherwise satisfies the definition of AOW and there is evidence that the firearm in question was actually concealed on a person
Note "if it otherwise satisfies the definition of AOW". The firearms you linked to are not AOW's as assembled.
Even the first link you provided disagrees with you:
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88
The fourth paragraph of that link says:
PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also can’t be defined as AOWs. That’s because the term “any other weapon” (AOW) means “any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person…” And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″......
im having a really hard time with how hard you're working to NOT read what they clearly wrote. Youu say "ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26"," but they utterly explicitly used the words, "or is actually concealed on the person."PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also can’t be defined as AOWs. That’s because the term “any other weapon” (AOW) means “any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person…” And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″......
I don't see a need for such angry sounding denigration of (seemingly) all those who have explored this idea in text and deed and video over the last couple of years. It isn't a bad idea, devoid of real benefit. Sure there are silly and ignorant shooters who've worked with these but a lot of pretty smart and knowledgable people have too.My feeling is that the largest real world outcome here will be a lessening of the number of stupid YouTube videos of camo-clad neckbeards shouldering their "braces", and very little else.
My feeling is that the largest real world outcome here will be a lessening of the number of stupid YouTube videos of camo-clad neckbeards shouldering their "braces", and very little else. What you do in the privacy of your own gravel pit is hard to regulate. Sort of like every other law that attempts to regulate behaviour.
"Question: What are two things that don't really serve a purpose for 99% of people?"
Neither do combine harvesters, machine tools, or welding equipment.
I don't see a need for such angry sounding denigration of (seemingly) all those who have explored this idea in text and deed and video over the last couple of years. It isn't a bad idea, devoid of real benefit. Sure there are silly and ignorant shooters who've worked with these but a lot of pretty smart and knowledgable people have too.
Let's not paint with too broad and black a brush.
You left out the sheer joy of saying "I told you so" to all of the people who called me an enemy of freedom because I didn't show what they considered to be the proper amount of enthusiasm for their crappy faux stock. I got a little tired of posting in that other thread only to be told that I was siding with ATF against 'the people' because I wasn't crowing with delight about bing able to stick it to the man by paying $130 for a crappy fake stock instead of paying for a $200 tax stamp that let me not have to worry about the legalities.S
Honestly it seems like some people are absolutely giddy that the ATF is saying the act of shouldering a pistol makes it an SBR.
Not sure if it is schadenfreude, smugness over already having gone through the NFA hurdles, agrrement with NFA laws or just pure curmugeoness.
I legitimately don't know what to say to a person who thinks 99% of people never eat food that was harvested with a combine or use any products that were manufactured using machine tools or welding equipment. That kind of claim is beyond mind-boggling, and surely cannot be intended as serious.
"Question: What are two things that don't really serve a purpose for 99% of people?"
No, it doesn't follow. The fact that shouldering the brace is illegal only means that the brace is close enough to being a shoulder stock that the BATF says it becomes a shoulder stock if you use it that way. That's not the same thing as saying that the brace is actually "indistinguishable" from a shoulder stock.If shouldering the brace is wrong, it follows the brace is indistinguishable from a shoulder stock.
SBRs and SBSs are unique in the NFA world in that swapping out the short barrel makes them no longer NFA items, even absent any notification for removal from the registry. According to ATF policy, "unmaking" your SBR does make it NOT an NFA item.If shouldering the brace is wrong, it follows the brace is indistinguishable from a shoulder stock. If so, then all the previously ATF-approved braced pistols out there are in reality short barrel rifles, which must be dealt with.
I believe it was an in-kind response to your ... confusing, at best ... comment here:
Since what "99% or people" do or don't know or think about those topics can hardly be considered important or compelling it (probably mistakenly) came off as an ignorant denigration of folks who do know and care about those products.
And I'm sure that wasn't your intent ... at all.
For one, I wasn't quoting anything in that letter....just using plain English.dogmushQuote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
The moment you attach and intend to use the Sig Arm Brace as a shoulder stock.
You still aren't reading. No where in that letter is the verb attach or install used.
Sorry sir, the letter does not say that. It makes no reference to "the act of putting it to your shoulder".The ATF doesn't care who attached the pistol brace. They say, again clearly, the act of putting it to your shoulder is the redesign.
Why?Again, read closer.......
Are you kidding?barnbwt ....... I think SIG is a very good candidate. They even have standing, since the marketability of their braces have been irreparably damaged, now that every buyer can become a felon at a moment's notice)