ATF targets three percenters

[Elkins45]

Based on the very poor reporting in the original story we have no idea what they meant by "three percenters", but I read NOTHING that implied militias.

My GUESS is that the vast majority of the guns used in crimes are brought in to Chicagostan by only 3% of the criminal population....but that's just a guess.

Much unsubstantiated hand wringing in this thread.

 

[mrming]

The original intent will be restoring the Constitution from a government that ignores it. There comes a point you either roll over and take it up the bum, or turn and fight. Those who see the the Constitution as an obstacle to their enlightened rule can never rest easy with armed Citizens about.

Bluntly, under the Constitution that isn't your job. You can vote. You can volunteer to help campagins, oversee ballot counts, and drive people to polling stations. It's irrelevant if the gov follows what you see as being law of the land, only what SCOTUS sees it as being. We aren't at a constitutional crisis juncture ala Jackson / SCOTUS / trail of tears.

One generally doesn't uphold something by violating it. We don't uphold Christianity by stealing and burning our brother's house down. 'Upholding' it via insurrection is contrary to its intent and spirit. It was made for peacable transfers of power between elected delegates. Got definitive proof your votes aren't being counted correctly? Otherwise this isn't very highroad.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Bluntly, under the Constitution that isn't your job.

Bluntly, under the Constitution that IS my job. When I entered service, I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution -- and that oath had no expiration date.

 

[mrming]

Bluntly, under the Constitution that IS my job. When I entered service, I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution -- and that oath had no expiration date.

Please quote article and section then that delegates that authority to you as a member of the federal military? Or as a US citizen? Your oath was to uphold the constitution and its system. i'm pretty dubious it said anything about being judge of it.That oddly enough is the job of elected or appointed judges by electees and is enumerated (marginally) by the consitution.

Can't quote article and section? Then I'm hearing an aweful lot about going outside said system in order to uphold it. Generally that is known as a contradiction.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Please quote article and section then that delegates that authority to you as a member of the federal military? Or as a US citizen? Your oath was to uphold the constitution and its system. i'm pretty dubious it said anything about being judge of it.That oddly enough is the job of elected or appointed judges by electees and is enumerated (marginally) by the consitution.

Can't quote article and section? Then I'm hearing an aweful lot about going outside said system in order to uphold it. Generally that is known as a contradiction.

United States Constitution, Article VI, Clause 3:
Clause 3: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

(Emphasis mine.)

 

[ATLDave]

My GUESS is that the vast majority of the guns used in crimes are brought in to Chicagostan by only 3% of the criminal population....but that's just a guess.

Much unsubstantiated hand wringing in this thread.

I share your guess, and agree about the hand-wringing. There's enough real trouble in the world without having to see shapes in the clouds.

 

[mrming]

Much better


However, are you judicial or elected repesentative of a state or federal body? Executive refers to POTUS in the constitution. While the military does report to the executive they are not, themselves, executive (art 2 sec 1 clause 1 for who has executive, art 2 sec 2 clause 1 for command hierarchy)


You do spotlight a hilarious potential. A state legislature could in theory bring suite over the expansion of the interstate commerce clause or restrictions on any amendment not done via proper process. Too bad it'd still just end up in SCOTUS.

 

[JRH6856]

I'm going to go out on a limb here... I haven't read the consitution lately.

I do however seem to recall that it outlined a system of checks and balances between government arms with provisions for regular replacement of various positions via some derviative of popular voting.

I recall absolutely zero, zilch, nada role in said checks and balances via federal millitary, state military, local militia nor any other armed group. You want to uphold the constitution? Congrats! But your rights under it as a US citizen end at voting and participating in the election process. You don't get to judge the intent of the words of it -- that was reserved to the courts. You don't get to write legislation -- that was reserved to Congress. You can't lead from the front either as that is reserved to the Executive.

Anything more than voting and obeying the heir of the chain-of-custody of the US gov isn't provided for in the founding document. If i'm wrong someone please point out article and section for the reset button by the populace other than voting... I shall wait. No, the declaration is not part of the Constitution.

In short as a citizen power starts and ends at voting. You can advocate for all the change you want via it. Organizing under arms while advocating for change is easily viewed by many as something entirely different and not upholding of the constitution.

Before that limb breaks, you might want to read and ponder the Preamble and the 9th and 10th amendments to the Constitution.

None of the powers you describe as reserved are reserved. They are delegated by The People who may, by majority agreement, (but not individually) rescind said delegation.

The Constitution does not govern The People, the Constitution is the instrument whereby The People govern the government.

 

[krupparms]

JRH is absolutely correct! The preamble to the Constitution & the 9th.& 10th. Amd.s are there to keep the GOVERNMENT IN CHECK! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! LET'S GET BACK ON TARGET! LET'S FOCUS ON THE 3% THE ARTICLE TALKS ABOUT!

 

[JustinJ]

3%ers in this sense have nothing to do with Militias are any other self professed liberty groups. Read the link:

http://www.guns.com/2014/06/10/chic...igence-center-to-fight-three-percenters-video

 

[Old Fuff]

3%ers in this sense have nothing to do with Militias are any other self professed liberty groups. Read the link:

http://www.guns.com/2014/06/10/chica...rcenters-video

Yes indeed: Do go read the link! Maybe the ATF&E is up to much more then we thought, especially in combining information in various databases.

 

[Art Eatman]

Dunno from the article if it's three percent of gang-bangers, or three percent of FFLs in those two states, but it appears to have nothing at all to do with militias and the politics thereof.