Avenue of No Escape: Drive Thru Lanes.

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Avenue of No Escape: Drive Thru Lanes.

Since none of us are criminals, law abiding citizens have a lot to learn about how criminals think and how they plan their crimes. Knowing a little about their thinking can help us in regard to our own personal safety.

Drive thru lanes are an accepted convenience in today’s society; convenient for not only the law abiding citizens; also for the non-law abiding of our society. Just going to get a fast food burger and using a drive thru lane can go from being a matter of convenience, to a matter of opportunity for the criminal.

Take a look at these drives thru lanes, and think about the ones you have used in the past. Consider the one you use frequently.

One I used to use had single lane going around the back of the building with the classic driver’s side menu and speaker to place your order. At night you would be well hidden from view of anyone in the front or along the street. As you pull around to the first window, there is a high curb on the passenger side, which also has shrubbery as part of the landscaping to shield another fast food restaurant located adjacent to it.

This was very convenient for the two non-law abiding guys that came out in the dark, approached a vehicle that could not pull forward due to car in front in line, could not back up due to a car behind, and could not pull out of the drive thru lane due to the high curb and landscaping. No escape possible! The driver was pounced on in a split second, with guns at both driver’s side and passenger side, and a purse with all their money and Id and personal information taken. The two criminal ran thru the shrubbery from whence they came, jumped into a get-a-way vehicle in the other restaurants parking lot and were gone.

Avenue of No Escape – Avenue of Opportunity.

Let us take a look at this incident and see what the driver could have done to avoid this crime.

If during hours of operation where the main lobby and dining area was open to the public they could have simply parked the vehicle and gone in. While in the restaurant, they could have done what we all should all do when entering an unfamiliar place, look around to make note of other entrances, exits and emergency exits. By this simple choice they could have avoided being stuck with no where to go and no one to see.

I know this restaurant. I also know the area very well. Because of this I have been inside with kids, parents and grandparents who I've told, if at night, after the dining area closed it would be better to go to another restaurant, with better lighting, a better approach to and design of drive thru, with a wide open area allowing one to observe surroundings and room to evade.

Once these problems are discussed even kids will surprise you about knowing which places are safer and which are not, and even suggest it is better to go inside and place the order instead of getting stuck in line in a “convenient” drive thru.




Steve



My special thanks to hso for his assistance

 

[Handgun Midas]

I just hate drive-thrus for purely irrational reasons, and refuse to use them.
I have been known to use an ATM drive-thru on occasion.
At night, an ATM drive-thru would probably be safer, since you will not be blocked by the line of cars.

I think I'll get something to cover the pistol if I set it on the passenger's seat;
a dark cloth should be simple, unless I think I need an opening of some sort to get to the gun faster.
Or maybe just pulling open the glove box is fast enough.

 

[hso]

SM has provided us with an example of a situation many of us face without thinking day in and day out. The solution to the problem doesn't lie in having a firearm or in the training of it's use, but in recognizing the problem in the first place, analyzing it properly in the second and, lastly, avoiding the threat.

Not a new idea, but one often neglected by many of us.

To fight and conquer in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy with no fight at all, that's the highest skill.
- Sun Tzu

 

[BullfrogKen]

Tape loops.

We discuss the topic of tape loops in classes and Study Group.

The usual setting surrounds the student/practitioner and his verbal response to an incident. I happen to be an advocate of Tuco's rule:

THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY
Tuco : "When you have to shoot, shoot - don't talk!"

Everyone must come to his own conclusion on that matter. In those conversations we'll debate its appropriateness and effectiveness.


But this isn't the context I'm referencing.


Violent Criminal Actors have their own "tape loop". The attack has been mentally rehearsed. Its likely been carried out before, by those very VCA's, or their compatriots and successful techniques taught to them. Very similar to your "mentoring" process you speak of, sm, only in this context its for nefarious purposes.


Past experience, the design and planning of the attack, and the mental rehearsals set up a "tape loop" for the VCA. These form a certain set of expectations and planned appropriate responses. Actions outside the typical anticipated responses cause hesitation, and give the victim time to take decisive and effective acts to foil these plans.


Having no reluctance to driving over the curb and through the hedge seriously alters the effectiveness of the attack. Locked doors certainly help.

Sometimes, one must simply be content to accept the battle is best fought by de-escalating and giving over the cash. If this personally is an acceptable option, you must yourself make plans for it. Are you able to actually give up your cash without giving up things of value to you, but of little to a mugger? ID and family photos might make one hesitant, and are commonly in our wallet along with the money. An item like money clip that has no items with personal attachment I'll give up any day. My picture of my wife, and driver's license, I might not want Young Johnny Bad Manners to have.

 

[Avenger29]

Don't go through drive through lanes- hard enought to understand the scratchy speaker and they always get my order wrong.

But yeah, it is definitly an area that would be easy to target- no visibility behind building, driver distracted by ordering and counting out money, kids screaming and yelling in the backseat...your situational awarness is definitly reduced. Especially at night.

 

[Warren]

I'd like to say I never use the drive-thru but that would be a lie.

Maybe 1 out 20 trips I use the DT.

I'll get that percentage down in the future.

 

[junyo]

Use the drivethru. You can control some of the variables. Give the car in front of you some extra room, and be aware of what's on the other side of the curbing. Don't put the car in park, just use the brake. Be prepared mentally to make the conscious decision of immediately slamming on the gas and cranking the wheel. Yep, you'll probably damage your car when it jumps the curb. Depending on how close you are and how tight you can turn, you'll clip the car in front of you. But you won't need to sit passively at some robber's mercy.

 

[Lou629]

Better yet, just don't use drive-thrus at all, that way there are no variables to control, and you won't possibly end up with a 'fo-tay' or whatever being stuck in one or both of your ears. If you can avoid even a potential situation in the first place, why wouldn't you?

 

[Sistema1927]

Another factor to consider is this: Am I more vulnerable parking the car and walking into the establishment than I am in using the drive-thru?

 

[junyo]

Better yet, just don't use drive-thrus at all, that way there are no variables to control, and you won't possibly end up with a 'fo-tay' or whatever being stuck in one or both of your ears. If you can avoid even a potential situation in the first place, why wouldn't you?

Because everything has a cost/benefit curve, and every situation presents variables. Once you've decided to go to location X, your decision set is now how to recieve the goods and services you went there for. Thru the window of the car via the drivethru, or by getting out of the car and going in. Both ways present risks and benefits. You could walk into a restaurant or bank just before it's robbed. You don't always feel like getting out of the car. You might not have the time to go in. The same criminals that can roll up on you in the drivethru can hit you in the parking lot, with your hands full of stuff, herding kids, and not surrounded by a couple tons of steel. I don't see how one can categorically say that the drivethru is always less safe. The drivethru presents a set of risks and benefits the same as any other option.

 

[jlbraun]

I was at a drivethrough once and had two guys get out of separate cars and start fighting. I was totally trapped and couldn't move, there was no way I could get out of there, not even by jumping a curb.

Another motivator for me getting my CCW.

 

[brufener]

When I go to a drive-through, I try and take my wife's vehicle (a suburban). Sitting higher up gives me a better vantage point to watch out for would-be criminals. While I've never seen would-be criminals (or any criminals) in the drive-through, I believe a solid stare as they approach can do wonders to deter crime.

Doors are always locked (they lock automatically), plenty of room in the car in front of me, and if there is a curb, I put it in Auto-4WD or 4-HI. I avoid any drivethroughs where the curb is so high that I cannot jump it.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I don't ever use a drive through for food. It has always been a personal preference thing but now I have another reason if I need it.

On occasion I use the drive-through at the bank and have pissed off any number of people because I will stop my vehicle just short of the ATM, get out and use it, then get back in my vehicle and leave.

On one such instance late at night I recall seeing somebody squatting down in the bushes nearby so I got right back in the car and left. Never would have seen them there had I stayed in the car.

 

[FPrice]

I don't use drive-throughs in fast-food places any more. I like to see what I am getting before I leave.

I do use a drive-through teller at my bank but I do not pull into the enclosed lane until the car before me leaves. I stay far enough back to be able to manuveur in the event anyone approaches my vehicle. If the car behind me doesn't like it, tough.

 

[CNYCacher]

Drive-thru lanes scare me too.

My drive-thru protocol is to keep the doors locked and windows up unless I am ordering or recieving. Window goes down to talk to the speaker box and right back up for the wait and doesn't come down again until i am up to the window. I give the person in front of me a good half-car length at all times in case I want to jet out of there, but I am always mentally prepared to push another car out of the way, jump a curb, flatten some bushes, etc. if it came to it. When I pull up to the window I get in tight. I think I scare the window worker sometimes cause I am right in their face, they are expecting me to knock their little booth off of the side of the building . When you are driving a vehicle with less curves than your average shoe box*, it aint hard to maneuver in close. I usually fold the mirror in too. When the money is being exchanged I am not looking for any wiggle room for a perp to run up to my driver's side window.

Maybe you think i am paranoid, but looking out for bad guys while planning an exit strategy is about as productive as anything else you can do while waiting for the heaven-sent goodness of a double-whopper!

* = 1995 K2500 Diesel Pickup

 

[Lou629]

Because everything has a cost/benefit curve, and every situation presents variables.

The drivethru presents a set of risks and benefits the same as any other option.

Agreed, but the OP posted concerns about drive-thrus as the potential threat, which is why i say that if they seem to be a potential for trouble to the OP, or anyone else, then just avoid them. Sure, there's some degree of risk just about anywhere one goes, and my point was why not just avoid it if you see it as such? I don't personally like drive-thrus myself for many reasons, security being just one reason, so i just don't use them. YMMV.

 

[SSN Vet]

a good place to put your thinking cap on.....

I'm very, very cautious about drive through lanes...esp. at the back ATM and night deposit drop box after hours.

I try to avoid them.....make the transaction during the day....especially if it's my wife (then the branch manager opens the door and greets her by namel.....advantages of small town living).

If I can't avoid them.....
1. I like to drive a complete loop around the building to see if there's people hanging around.
2. Lock all doors.
3. Have my card ready and use the fast cash option....in and out in 2 min.
4. I'm not looking at the machine.....I'm looking in my mirror and out passenger side window.

Hey, you don't have to pull up to within 6" of the car in front. Leave enough space so you can cut out if possible....

Definately not a place to be "asleep at the wheel"

 

[hso]

The drivethru presents a set of risks and benefits the same as any other option.

Good observation. If a drive thru is to be used take a look at the situation.

Got to get money for the evening and your choices become go to the ATM during the day or into the bank at lunch or wait until after dark where your only choice is the ATM- go during lunch. That way the ATM issue has the lighting variable removed.

Got a hungry kid and need to feed them and your choice is to go through the drive thru at fast food joint A or fast food joint B or go in and order at the counter at either. If you don't have time to go in then pick the drive thru with the best lighting, no curb traps, etc. If both have "ambush" written all over them go ahead and take the time to go into the safest looking one.

We'd recognize the folly of putting on a pink thong, flip flops and a smile and walking into a biker bar with a parking lot full of Harleys with a "Rice Rockets Rule" tatoo on our chest. The hazards would be obvious. We don't have any control over the conditions of a specific place, but we can make decisions about our behavior. Whether we pay attention, analyze the conditions, evaluate the hazards against the need to go there and decide whether there are too many uncontrolled hazards to suite us is all up to us.

 

[Erinyes]

With the exception of my local Sonic, all of the drive-thrus I use are open on the passenger and make for easy egress. The Sonic is totally blocked by a bank of parking spaces, but it's lit up like the sun.

 

[Mannlicher]

Trust me SM, my old F100 truck with 10.5X31 R15 tires, and souped up 302 with 4BBL and headers, is not held hostage by the curb in a drive through lane.

 

[BigO01]

Trust me SM, my old F100 truck with 10.5X31 R15 tires, and souped up 302 with 4BBL and headers, is not held hostage by the curb in a drive through lane.

Yep and neither is a stock Blazer 4x4 .

Keep the doors locked , distance between your car and the one in front of you and the chances of getting trapped is pretty slim in the drive throughs I use .

I keep my eyes scanning the mirrors and can watch for trouble which I consider far safer than getting trapped in a restaurant if some wack job decides to rob it or just go on a shooting spree .

Even todays thin door panels provide more protection from a bullet than your T-shirt .

 

[NMshooter]

Considering how well .22LR zips through door panels I do not believe I would care to stay in the vehicle if shooting starts.

Depends on what my options for escape are and what I am driving, I guess.

Hard to outrun bullets, and cars at 20-30 mph are not too hard to hit...

I hate those scenarios where the best choice seems to be to sit there and blast away, you may get all of them but you make a good target yourself.

I always remove my seatbelt in the drive through lane and try to keep an eye on everything around me.

 

[Doggieman]

yup

I actually had an almost-situation in a drive-thru, which prompted my first gun purchase.

I was making a left turn into a late-night drive-thru in Santa Ana, CA (which is, as anyone will tell you who knows it, a huge ghetto). A couple of punks in a low rider tried to edge in in front of me but I honked and they didn't get in (I know I know, but I hadn't eaten all day and I was irritable to say the least). So there was a car in front of me, then me, and the punks behind me in line in the drive thru. The punks' door opened and the driver got out like he was going to approach my car, but I was in such a bad mood I rolled down my window and was fully prepared to hop out and brawl (ever been that hungry?) and he went back into his car.

So when I got back to my small office, which was a few minutes away, I went inside and sat down at the computer near the back of the office. After a few minutes the motion-activated light in the front of the office, which I had turned off upon entering, turned back on. I was alone there, it was about midnight, and I freaked and grabbed a letter opener and moved into a corner and just crouched there for about 15 minutes before I went into the front and saw nobody there. For some reason the light had just turned itself on. It had never done that before, and never happened again.

Couple days later I bought a .38 The thought of having to defend myself with a letter opener isn't an experience I'd ever like to repeat.

 

[redneckdan]

I rarely use drive throughs, out of habit I never shift out of gear, be it stop lights or traffic back up. Ya it wears the throw out bear faster but it makes for quicker reactions. Unless there is a wall I would be able to get over the divider that the resturant has. My truck is high enough up that for some body to level a gun on me they would have to climb up on my rock bars, if that happens I would have no problems with squishing them against the wall.

 

[DesertShooter]

Hopefully, some of you will read this, even though I'm posting it late!

The drive-thru scenario, as originally posted, became a reality several years ago....a FATAL reality! I know this for a fact, for I was a LEO and assisted in the arrest of the suspect!

A 24-hour fast food place with a drive-thru was "easy pickings" for two armed gang members. They robbed several patrons during their spree, but the final one resisted....and they shot him to death!
The dead victim was unable to go forward or in reverse, or even drive over the curbing of the drive-thru lane due to the heavy-duty steel poles that held up the roof over that drive-thru lane!

The robbery/murder took place in another jurisdiction, but a witness had seen the suspects in their get-away vehicle and was able to write down their vehicle license number. The suspects vehicle was registered to a residence in my patrol area, and they requested that a unit check that residence for that vehicle. When I drove past the residence, there it was in the driveway!

That house was surrounded, and SWAT personnel were called out. Several members of the family came out peacefully, and said that there was no one else inside the home. UHH! Not CORRECT! The suspect, who was the son of the owner of the house, was found hiding under a bed. He matched the description of the "shooter" to a TEE, and was arrested.

Later on, I found out that the suspect and his gang member buddy (also eventually arrested) had specifically selected that particular fast-food place and the drive-thru lane BECAUSE of the steel poles that wouldn't allow the victims to drive over the curbing to get away! They also chose it due to its popularity, for the drive-thru was busy until the early morning hours.

The deceased victim had been unarmed, but had been "stubborn", and wouldn't turn over his wallet!

Here's another TRUE story, albeit a bit different!
An off-duty police officer, after having worked over-time, was hungry and went to a fast-food drive-thru for some food. He made his purchase, but the parking lot of the restaurant had some rowdy kids in it. Instead of eating his food in the parking lot, he drove around the corner to a quiet residential area and parked.

While the off-duty officer was eating his food, a suspect walked up, and the officer said that he "thought" that the suspect was merely going to be a "panhandler". NOPE! The suspect produced a handgun and demanded the officer's wallet....no knowing that he was confronting an off-duty police officer.

The officer "sort of" complied, by reaching into his pants pocket and removing his wallet. Instead of handing it to the suspect, he threw it onto the road a few feet away. The suspect went to retrieve the wallet, at which time the off-duty officer was able to unholster his firearm. Since I wasn't there, I can only rely upon what the off-duty officer said to the suspect......"Freeze! Drop the gun!". The suspect turned and faced the off-duty officer without dropping his gun, and that was when the officer fired....and the suspect expired at the scene from that ONE gunshot! Everything that came out during that investigation tended to affirm the story of the off-duty officer, even though there were no witnesses.

What it boils down to is....you can NEVER know when you will be 100% safe, unless you're inside your own residence! Even then, there is always the slight "possibility" of becoming the victim of a "home invasion" armed robbery!