Avenue of No Escape: Drive Thru Lanes.

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I picked up the habit of "combat driving" many years ago when I worked in a rough part of the city.

Basically, I would always stop with enough space in front of me to turn, I'd consider any reasonably flat surface to be an escape route, and would not stop anywhere where I could not turn onto an escape vector, and always reminded myself that reverse was a valid gear to drive in. (Yup, reversing down a sidewalk saved me once.)

This is just one application of the general axiom "Always act in such a way that you preserve as many meaningful options as you can, because sooner or later you're going to need them."
 
Well, I'd love to be able to say, "I never use the drive-through. In fact, I don't eat fast food at all. It is unhealthy and expensive! I keep a stash of granola bars in the car for when my kids get hungry." That would be ideal, and it would eliminate the whole problem.

Unfortunately, reality is more like, "Tuesday taco night. Three for a dollar!" "Go through the Carls Jr. drive-thru, and then you can take your six-dollar burger home and have a BEER with it." or "Oooh! Jack in the Box has pumpkin-pie shakes!"

Ever go big game hunting and set up an ambush at the only way in or out of a soybean field? The drive-through is no different, except that there aren't nearly as many predators. I've known about the potential dangers for years, but I've only been hassled a few times, and never felt that my life was in danger. So, my stomach gets the better of my brain, and I go through them anyway. I do a cursory look-around, but then my attention is firmly on the menu.

Some risks are just worth taking. Sometimes you just have to live your life and not worry about every shadow.
 
I was taught the dangers of drive-through lanes several years ago. A realative of my Daughter-in-law was stabbed in the neck...he was sitting in drive-thru at a local fast food...on a Sundy morning no less.
I do the best I can. Doors locked, windows up, and I pull in as close to the building wall as possable. I also roll up my window after ordering.
Mark.
 
People never can understand why I hate going through drive-through lanes. This is why.

Even when the lane allows you to escape if needbe, you are still locked in with a car right on your bumper (even moreso than in common daily traffic) and quite possibly several other vehicles around you with completely unattentive drivers (as they're just waiting in line, afterall). Add to that the fact that if you're alone in the vehicle, you've got your attention set on something other than surroundings: the menu or ordering, and that horirble squawking box.

Not only that, but unlike waiting in line with a bunch of people, where you can maneuver, you can't even maneuver personally: you're a good 2' lower than any potential assailant (at head level), your weight is likely distributed in such a fashion that it's not easy to get weight onto your feet, and you can't turn at the torso much more than 30 degrees - less, in cold weather or if you're large.

This is part of the reason why I prefer vehicles with a high viewing profile, such as minivans, trucks, and SUVs. You're also more likely to be able to move around more within the vehicle's cab (in this respect, minivans and vans are my favorite). They're just generally much better for situational awareness and visibility.

In short: the only time I'll go through a drive through is when there literally is no other option and the place is well lit and I'm in a rush, or I'm a passenger.
 
Very good thread.
I don't eat fast food anymore. Drive thrus aren't an issue for me unless I'm riding with someone else.
There are bank drive thrus and gridlock to thnk of though.
 
The only way out

crash52.jpg

Honestly if this is the only way out I will take it.
Ford F350 SD Diesel 4x4
And I have pushed an attempted car jacker backwards over a block. Totally disabled their Honda with a full size bronco. Then tried to run them down. :evil:
 
I alwase give myself enough room to get around the car in front of me in case i have to gun it. Drive through lanes or at stop lights.
 
Wait getting out of your vehicle in a bad neighborhood, going to a fast food joint, taking out your wallet, buying food, then carrying food and not having both hand free is not as safe as a drive thru? :scrutiny:

I prefer to use a drive thru...simply because 2000lb of vehicle out trumps any handgun caliber. Rules to keep you safe in a drive thru.

1) Drive a big truck or SUV. The poster who said he was stuck in a drive thru while 2 guys got into a fistfight...that would not happen to me. If I had to I would slowly make contact with the bumper and slowy PUSH:D .

2) leave enough room between cars to escape. Same as #1

3) Always keep your doors locked and and windows closed (until you reach the window).

4) on the driver side hug the wall or window as close as possible.

5) As always be aware of your surroundings.

6) If something happens, Floor it, as safely as possible
 
I use a drive-thru quite a bit and the one that I use the most is the worst. No exit, except through the window. (Most have drive-arounds in case somebody places a $100 order; For God's sake, start going inside, will ya?) One good thing is that it's longest stretch parallels the busy street. Where you actually meet the window, though, is on the side street and it would seem to attract undesireables. However, it doesn't, at least it hasn't in all the years I've been going there, according to police records. I still take no chances; my weapon is on me at all times, or at night, it is in my lap the whole time I'm in the lane.
 
I still take no chances; my weapon is on me at all times, or at night, it is in my lap the whole time I'm in the lane.

How do you think this will work out if someone initiates an attack by ramming you from behind?

Secure access to a weapon from the drivers seat is a problem. Ankle carry or craossdraw is probably the best if you're weapon is on your person. I know of some police officers who attach a kydex holster to the bottom of the steering column in their squad. This might not be legal for a civilian in many states.

Jeff
 
I think it's more about awareness and being ready for contingencies that apply to your situation. Sure, drive thru's are tough, but it's momentary and defendable
 
I posted this on thefiringline earlier on a thread about using your CCW, I go by Bigfatts over there. It didn't happen to me, happened to my wife.

We were on a hunting trip the night before last out in the Green Swamp, Sumter County, Florida. It was just an overnite trip and we were waiting at the tent for my brother and sister-in-law to meet us there. It was about 9PM and we were about out of supplies so I suggested one of us go get something from Arby's while the other one waited. I wouldn't let her stay in the camp alone and she wouldn't if I asked her so I asked if she would mind going. She said ok and went to the car. I went out and gave her my CCW Bulgie Makarov to put in the glove box, in case of emergency. She left and recounted this story to me when she got back:

She was about to pull up to the window to pay when some nut ran up and started pounding on the drive-thrue window, screaming something about a milkshake at the clerk. Obviously the clerk would not open the window. My wife evifently caught his attention because he moved towards her window. Evidently the little Mak scared the fiddley-madink out of him 'cuz he took off like a shot (no pun intended).

Boy was I glad she took it with her! I've been trying to get her to take her CCW course for a while now, maybe this will help spur her on.
 
Drive-Thru

Somebody may have already made mention of this, but since I didn't read through all the replies, I'll go for it.

Steve's report raised a flag in my mind. To wit: (Paraphrased)

"Covered with guns from driver's and passenger's side."

Sounds suspiciously like the cretins who play this particular game...and possibly carjackers-in-waiting too, have considered the recent passage of
"Shall Issue" laws, and have taken steps to thwart potential defenders by double-teaming the marks...covering the target from two sides, resulting in a No-Win for the hapless law-abiding citizen...armed or not.

This may become the newest trend. Be vigilant, friends. Be vigilant. Don't let yourselves get boxed in if at all possible.
 
How do you think this will work out if someone initiates an attack by ramming you from behind?
Better than in any holster. But I doubt anyway this would happen in this drive-thru. You have to see it to appreciate. High curbs on both sides and barely enough room to turn my F-150 to get up to the window. I highly doubt any criminal wants to get caught in this tight a place. Most carjackings in my area happen on dark side streets, or in parking lots far away fron the stores.

Secure access to a weapon from the drivers seat is a problem. Ankle carry or craossdraw is probably the best if you're weapon is on your person.
Crossdraw is normal for me. But nothing beats it being in your lap with your hand on it.
 
Think!

1911Tuner wrote:
This may become the newest trend. Be vigilant, friends. Be vigilant. Don't let yourselves get boxed in if at all possible.

Yes Sir - that is the point of this thread. Thank You!

Some know of my background and other things. Many know I have my "druthers" on many matters. Think folks, just think. I am a firm believer in thinking out the box, think like a thief, and think on your feet.

Software not Hardware. Please. We are not supposed to be where trouble is, leave if trouble shows , engage without and engaging - then stop an immediate threat if matters come to that.

Knowing how to do the above is paramount! We can not be complacent, not access each activity we do.

Yes, the criminal element understands strength in numbers. Criminals know, a big , heavier 4wd may go for hopping a curb, pushing a vehicle in front/ behind, to get distance. They know this, just like a pack of wolves will go after a bigger prey - they know increased numbers, and keeping one "busy" distracted, throwing one off the expected works.

One by themselves may try many things - add a passenger, now what if that passenger is a child in a car seat? What if an elderly person? Strategy and Tactics change - for the same criminal act.

These Criminals will bash a tire iron onto rear truck/bash into glass- jolted driver / passengers by that surprise, they have gained access to driver, passenger sides.

Do not fall into the false sense of security that a gun, a heavy vehicle, anything will always work.
Vehicles used to be heavier, bigger engines, and I know a Lincoln with a 460 V8, Cadillac with V8, a Suburban with a V8 can be run off the road, blocked tight as a drum - by a smaller vehicle(s). I know, oh dear me how I know.

I and others go back before fast food restaurants, before drive through lanes for ATM - as there were no ATM. We do know about Bank Deposits night drops, and we know the lanes for parking desks can be the Avenue to hell, injury, or death.

FWIW, many of us used a .44 mag, with .44 loadings for car guns. I am not the only one that knows the feel and sound of metal against concrete, driving on flat tires, and having only the metal wheel to drive on with sparks flying from metal against concrete - and some of them sparks were incoming bullets.

Think, have a plan, a back-up plan and...Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

I have put a 4wd with locked hubs , and a tricked out engine - cold stopped, by myself, on foot, and no weapons. It took me 1.2 seconds from hiding to making that vehicle stopped where it could not go forward, backwards, or evade.

Criminals know this trick - this is where I learned it. It was pulled on a Rep I knew, and he was robbed. WE practiced not only using the same trick against a BG, also not getting into the same situation he did.

All I did was run from the shadows, below driver's view on passenger side and use a set of home-made Wheel Chocks. Two folks working with Chocks even better, one can roll under and pop-up with a gun on drivers side.as the other one does the same on passenger side.
Add a third person that smashes out back glass with a tire tool - gotcha!

Learned a few things from actual situations, from criminals from ...you get the ideas...
 
But nothing beats it being in your lap with your hand on it.
If you can keep it in your hand, yes. If not, it's going to end up on the floor or between the seat and the door/island, etc. At least one of the officers in the Miami shootout unholstered his pistol prior to the car stop and lost it in the ensuing bumping and banging. He was relegated to entering the firefight with a 5 shot snubby backup.

Better to leave the gun securely holstered until you need it. At least you'll know that it is where it is supposed to be.
 
If you can keep it in your hand, yes. If not, it's going to end up on the floor or between the seat and the door/island, etc.
Possible but doubtful. I got rear-ended with a camera in my lap that I didn't have my hand on and it remained there. It was much lighter than a gun. Centrifugal force is going to force the item toward you, not away onto the floor. And if you people are anything like me, you're going to watch anybody that comes up behind you at any time, especially in a drive-thru at night. I like to think I am always prepared for the worst.
 
Centrifugal force is going to force the item toward you, not away onto the floor.
It's inertia, not centrifugal force, but you're right in that the force of the initial impact will tend to force the object in your lap toward you. However, if you get rear-ended in a drive-thru there's a good chance you're going to come to an abrupt stop pretty quickly. Either on the car in front of you or on the high curbs you mentioned or when you jam on your brakes, etc. That sudden stop is likely to move the object off your lap, and if you're like most people you let go of it to put both hands on the wheel at the first impact.
 
On the one hand you MIGHT get robbed, on the other hand, the stuff they serve in the drive through WILL eventually kill you. :D

This happened at a drive through near my parent's place, heavy traffic, open all night near an interstate. Thugs robbed someone in the drive through lane pinned in, by cars front and back, hopped a fence to their get away car and drove right into a cop car. Apparently he was turning into the drive through next-door. The drive through has high (like construction barrier) sides and a chain link fence.. no way in hell to drive out of it if cornered, pain in the ass to go back if they screw up the order.

I know its NOT realistic to say 'don't go there'... and we've all likely been guilty of sitting there window down cash in hand waiting for the kid on the other end to take our orders. I dsuggest you don't do it at 2am.

Late night drive throughs are gaining in popularity, caveat emptor.
 
It's inertia, not centrifugal force
You're right of course. Forgive me, I'm so used to going round in circles.;)


On the one hand you MIGHT get robbed, on the other hand, the stuff they serve in the drive through WILL eventually kill you.
On that I won't disagree. I'm sure I'll die of this crap before anybody will pull a gun on me.:D
 
Secondary Missiles?

That video looked pretty "staged" to me. Good illustration, though.

Pusuant to the video and other advice on this thread, I'll sure stay close to the window now.

This whole thread gives me another reason to keep my promise to myself to practice shooting with my left hand. Trouble is, the last time I tried it I was so lousy at it that I could not hit the paper, so I couldn't offer any advice to myself as to correcting the problem.

But now I'm ready to sacrifice my passenger side window if necessary. Imagine what all that glass flying at a bad guy would do --even if I missed.
 
I will not stop using convenient drive through’s at the bank, fast food, pharmacy or more.

Try and rob ME at these locations you will be =
1. Shot
2. Ran over
3. Shot and runover

Take your pick bad guy.

Note what ever vehicle I am in I am bigger than a robber on foot. Without being on foot what danger can you be?

Note: Not bloodthirsty just doing as I was trained in the .Gov training.
 
But now I'm ready to sacrifice my passenger side window if necessary. Imagine what all that glass flying at a bad guy would do --even if I missed.

The flying glass would likely be your most effective weapon in that scenario. Autoglass is very hard to shoot accuarately through. The good thing about the side glass is that it will probably crumble and leave you a big hole (if not most of the window) to make your second shot through.

Jeff
 
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