being under capacitied

[Bezoar]

Now its normal to have the standard "are we undergunned by using a revolver?" thread but sometimes something has to be brought up.

whats the difference between owning and using a revolver with 6 or 7 shots for self defense when you go out on the town and using a small semi auto that only has 5, 6 or 7 shots in it? using that precious 6 shot magazine and one in the chamber?

factor in barrel length, and actual proven bullet performance. Alot of those small semi autos make the old 158 grain lrn in a 4 inch barrel look preferrable for stopping a threat.

seriously, if brand x of 125 grain jhp in 9mm is barely able to expand from a 92fs at 10 feet, how do you expect it to work in a sub compact?

 

[TennJed]

Lots of the 6 shot semis and smaller (380 pocket guns) or thinner (9mm single stacks) than snub noses.

But I think the main thing is carrying reloads. Speed loaders are bulky and a pain to carry compared to a mag from a small semi auto. Speed strips are easy to carry but not as easy to reload as a semi auto magazine.

Carrying extra rounds, advantage semi auto

So the small semis are generally easier to conceal and defiantly easier to conceal your extra rounds. It is not just about the 6 in the gun

 

[drastic_quench]

I'm fine with five from an SP101. Speed strips are much easier to carry that speed loaders. I think this video makes some great points about realistic probability and capacity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPvH_UaqgqE

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I carry a SP with just 5 daily and feel well armed.

 

[C0untZer0]

You research how loads work and make a decision

seriously, if brand x of 125 grain jhp in 9mm is barely able to expand from a 92 fs at 10 feet, how do you expect it to work in a sub compact?

You research how loads work and make a decision

380 ACP out of a 3" barrel:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNSGOEQko_MjOCGyqlMTiM2njdQQRbdg

9mm Luger out of a 3" barrel:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i

 

[CraigC]

whats the difference between owning and using a revolver with 6 or 7 shots for self defense when you go out on the town and using a small semi auto that only has 5, 6 or 7 shots in it?

Not much. My usual carry autos are a S&W Bodyguard .380 (6rds) and a Kimber Ultra Carry .45ACP (7rds). Not a huge difference in capacity but the autos are easier to conceal.

 

[benzy2]

I think the problem is more that if you are a person willing to carry the size and weight of a 6-7 shot 4" barreled revolver, you aren't going to be the same guy carrying a pocket 9mm. A GP100/L framed size revolver is going to be similar to carrying a Full sized semi-auto, carrying from 17-20 rounds of 9mm or 14+rounds of 45 ACP. If we want to compare to a pocket 9mm, you're really looking at an airweight J frame, which then is a 5 shot vs 8 shot debate. Reloads are what they are. You have enough bullets until you don't. I'd rather easier and faster reloads than not, but it also isn't always the end of discussion to have slow reloads.

Now, if someone is stating that a full sized revolver leaves you under gunned but a pocket 9mm does not, I'd certainly disagree. There is no question though that for similar size and weight, the semi-auto polymer options carry more ammo and have faster reloads.

 

[Skribs]

Compare a pocket pistol vs. a snub-nose, and you'll find that the pocket pistol is thinner, shorter, and shorter (in length and in height) than the snub-nose. However, when viewed as a triangle with the bottom two points being the grip and the muzzle, the two will share a similar profile, because of the curves of the revolver, and the revolver is only thicker at one point.

Even so, I still give a small edge to the auto in size. As mentioned above, my LCP gets 6-7 shots per magazine, whereas a snub-nose is probably only going to get 5, and reloads are MUCH smaller and easier to carry (even compared to speedstrips), and easier to use (whether you use a loader or strips in the revolver).

The auto is generally a bit more favorable for lefties than the revolver.

The auto probably has an easier trigger to use than the revolver, because you're looking at only cocking the hammer/releasing it with a DAO auto vs. also turning the cylinder on a DAO revolver.

Overall, I think there are advantages to a revolver, but there are many reasons I carry an LCP instead of a revolver.

 

[Armored farmer]

I switched from a SP101 to a 1911 Defender:
better sights
longer sight radius
thinner
easier to load/reload/unload
higher capacity
identical in size
spare mags are easier to carry than speedloaders or strips

I still like my revolvers, but for me the Defender was the undeniable winner for a ccw.

 

[Hunter2011]

Here in South Africa I am a member on a local firearm forum. They almost want to ban me just because I say I feel well armed with my only 7 shot 9mm pistol. They are really mad at me for not seeing the bigger picture.
I totally agree with the OP. Why are you considered to be better armed with a 7 shot pistol over a 7 shot revolver? I don't think you are. But if you carry spare magazines, then you are better armed. That is a given. Also you can't get 17 shot revolvers, but you do get 17 shot pistols. So if you want capacity you have to buy a pistol.
When talking about revolvers in that forum, they would have stoned me to death if they could have, just for mentioning revolvers and SD in the same sentence. Seemingly revolvers have no place in my country. In a way that is true. Here they come in gangs of 6 each armed. Then more capacity is better. But in the town where I live I have never heard of more than 2 guys at a time doing a house invasion. Therefore I feel just fine with 7 shots only.
I will feel even better armed with a 7 shot revolver because I know it will never stovepipe or something like that.
If you don't mind the capacity, there is nothing wrong with a revolver, in fact it has many advantages over a pistol carrying the same number of rounds.
But I might just as well be very wrong with my opinion. But this is my 2 cents.

 

[Lucky Derby]

I recently made the switch for pocket carry from an airweight J frame to a Sig P938. I never really felt undergunned with a J frame, just had never found an auto in this size that was not a mousegun caliber that I trusted to function. Enter the P938. Mine has been 100% reliable, and I put quite a few rounds through it before I made the switch. It not only offers higher capacity, and quicker reloads, but real sights too.
Now that is for pocket carry, whitch I only do if carrying a full size gun is not an option (ie:work clothes that don't allow anything more)
When I can carry a full size gun it is usually a 1911 or a High Power. However it is sometimes a K frame size .38/.357 or N frame size .44spl or .45 Colt. The autos are easier to carry, but I never have felt undergunned with any of them.

 

[B!ngo]

This (below). But to add:
For me, the revolver, no matter what the size, is harder to carry than one of the new/small semi-autos. I have a Shield and it's phenomenally flat, easy to conceal and carry and points very well. The bulky shape of a revolver is tough for me to carry effectively.
But the revolver, depending on choice, can deliver a more potent round than will a small semi. I don't think that that it crucial these days with modern ammo for semi-s making size less of an issue but it still favors the revolver.
There is the factor of reliability and ease of operation. This has to favor, though only slightly the revolver as well. No tap/rack skilling and drilling, no rack the slide if there's a FTF. The semi's have gotten very reliable but they will never achieve what revolvers offer. They're just more complex.
Finally as noted below, it's the round after you're out that matters a lot. I have revolvers and semi's and no one is going to convince me that you can reload a revolver in any where near the short time to swap mags. And carrying the fastest reloading tool for revolvers is bulky and tough to disguise.
Overall, the only carry-scale gun I own is the Shield. If I had another it would be a Boberg. The next would be a Glock 26. No revolvers on the list.
B

Lots of the 6 shot semis and smaller (380 pocket guns) or thinner (9mm single stacks) than snub noses.

But I think the main thing is carrying reloads. Speed loaders are bulky and a pain to carry compared to a mag from a small semi auto. Speed strips are easy to carry but not as easy to reload as a semi auto magazine.

Carrying extra rounds, advantage semi auto

So the small semis are generally easier to conceal and defiantly easier to conceal your extra rounds. It is not just about the 6 in the gun

 

[PabloJ]

Now its normal to have the standard "are we undergunned by using a revolver?" thread but sometimes something has to be brought up.

whats the difference between owning and using a revolver with 6 or 7 shots for self defense when you go out on the town and using a small semi auto that only has 5, 6 or 7 shots in it? using that precious 6 shot magazine and one in the chamber?

factor in barrel length, and actual proven bullet performance. Alot of those small semi autos make the old 158 grain lrn in a 4 inch barrel look preferrable for stopping a threat.

seriously, if brand x of 125 grain jhp in 9mm is barely able to expand from a 92fs at 10 feet, how do you expect it to work in a sub compact?

One semi-auto is equal to two revolvers. Revolver speed loaders, moon clips and speed strips are next to worthless.

 

[Lucky Derby]

One semi-auto is equal to two revolvers. Revolver speed loaders, moon clips and speed strips are next to worthless.

Says the man who's never truely gained the skill needed to effectively reload a revolver with speedloaders or moonclips.
Yes, they take more skill & practice to use effectively, but hardly worthless.
Ask Jerry Miculek.

 

[ugaarguy]

Now its normal to have the standard "are we undergunned by using a revolver?" thread but sometimes something has to be brought up.

whats the difference between owning and using a revolver with 6 or 7 shots for self defense when you go out on the town and using a small semi auto that only has 5, 6 or 7 shots in it? using that precious 6 shot magazine and one in the chamber?

factor in barrel length, and actual proven bullet performance. Alot of those small semi autos make the old 158 grain lrn in a 4 inch barrel look preferrable for stopping a threat.

seriously, if brand x of 125 grain jhp in 9mm is barely able to expand from a 92fs at 10 feet, how do you expect it to work in a sub compact?

You're operating under three failed assumptions.

The first failed assumption is that one can carry a 4" bbl service revolver in the same space as a sub compact semi-auto. In reality, on can carry a 4.5 to 5 inch bbl service semi-auto (with 15+ rounds of 9mm in the mag) in the same space as a 4" bbl service revolver.

The second failed assumption is that modern 9mm JHP ammo is "barely able to expand" from a service pistol. Standard pressure 124 gr JHPs from Federal (HST) and Speer (Gold Dot) expand to nearly 6/10" and penetrate over 12" of calibrated ballistic gelatin even after passing through heavy clothing.

The third failed assumption is that a .357" diameter LRN, which typically has little to no expansion, is going to create a larger wound channel than a .355" diameter JHP that hasn't expanded and is acting like an FMJ, when the JHP/FMJ is traveling at higher velocity. The reality is that penetration between the two is quite similar, and the extra .002" diameter of the LRN out of the .38 Spl isn't enough to make a measurable difference in wound channel.

 

[jrdolall]

Capacitied?

 

[HexHead]

Not much. My usual carry autos are a S&W Bodyguard .380 (6rds) and a Kimber Ultra Carry .45ACP (7rds). Not a huge difference in capacity but the autos are easier to conceal.

Have you actually tried concealing a snub nose revolver, or are you just guessing? I've abandoned my small semis for revolvers. They are as easy if not more easily pocket carried and far more reliable. They also tuck in tighter with an IWB holster. I had a BG .380 and my 438 is easier to pocket carry. Especially if your pants have vertical side pockets like slacks or cargo pants.

 

[PointOneSeven]

If I need to take on more than 2 BGs, I accept to probability that I won't 'win' a gunfight . Just living life is a gamble, but I'm glad life expectancy is pretty decent in my country.

I would like to 'upgrade' to a seven shot revolver for the house though. If I don't have to conceal it, a bigger rig is an option I'd like to look into.

 

[RealGun]

I think you would have to normalize the variables here. Moving from 5 to 6 rounds of any caliber revolver except maybe 327 Federal Magnum is a significantly (noticeably) bigger gun, aside from barrel length. If comparing to smallish semis in carry terms, I think you would have to narrow the scope of revolvers to 5 round cylinders in 38/357 caliber or smaller.

I am completely infatuated with my revolvers, but my best carry gun is still my Kimber with Officer grip and Commander barrel carried in a Galco KingTuk with spare mag on my off side. My lightweight, more concealable favorite is my Kahr P40, but it isn't much different to carry than my Smith 60 Pro Series. I do have a 637 Performance Center backup in my go bag, if the car is nearby, or deeper concealment is necessary, when out and about. Let's not forget the option of a backup gun, if a primary weapon runs empty.

 

[RealGun]

Capacitied?

That's an active verb. Haven't you heard?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Originally posted by ugaarguy: You're operating under three failed assumptions.

The first failed assumption is that one can carry a 4" bbl service revolver in the same space as a sub compact semi-auto. In reality, on can carry a 4.5 to 5 inch bbl service semi-auto (with 15+ rounds of 9mm in the mag) in the same space as a 4" bbl service revolver.

The second failed assumption is that modern 9mm JHP ammo is "barely able to expand" from a service pistol. Standard pressure 124 gr JHPs from Federal (HST) and Speer (Gold Dot) expand to nearly 6/10" and penetrate over 12" of calibrated ballistic gelatin even after passing through heavy clothing.

The third failed assumption is that a .357" diameter LRN, which typically has little to no expansion, is going to create a larger wound channel than a .355" diameter JHP that hasn't expanded and is acting like an FMJ, when the JHP/FMJ is traveling at higher velocity. The reality is that penetration between the two is quite similar, and the extra .002" diameter of the LRN out of the .38 Spl isn't enough to make a measurable difference in wound channel

Well said. The assumptions in the OP are just that, assumptions, and incorrect ones IMO.

I prefer revolvers in general, but the reality is that a semiauto is easier for me to carry IWB, which is my preffered carry method. THAT'S what dictates my decision to carry a semiauto a lot of the time. It's more comfortable, and I'll carry the gun more as a result. And there are a lot of newer ammo choices that will expand just fine from a short barrel.

When I'm out in the woods, I frequently carry a 3" Ruger SP101 loaded with 158 gr Speers.

When I'm in a populated area, I carry a 3.3" XDs in .45 acp. Both are effective, and both work. In the XDs, I get 6 shots total in a larger caliber, that most importantly, fits my hand, and I can shoot well. However, there is the possibility that the .45 may not expand due to getting clogged with clothing, or reduced velocity. That's why I carry a .45. Even if the bullet doesn't expand, it is going to make a bigger hole than say the 158 gr lrn .38 cartridge described in the OP. So

Alot of those small semi autos make the old 158 grain lrn in a 4 inch barrel look preferrable for stopping a threat

does not hold up as a good argument for that particular caliber since compact .40 S&W and .45 acp guns are common.

whats the difference between owning and using a revolver with 6 or 7 shots for self defense when you go out on the town and using a small semi auto that only has 5, 6 or 7 shots in it?

I'd say the only difference is the bulk of the gun to be carried if they both hold the same ammo count. The semi will be smaller. So carry what you want.

 

[jrdolall]

I have a picture somewhere, I think I posted it a while back in another thread, of my 642 airweight .38 compared to a Keltec 380 and PF-9. In general dimensions there is not a huge difference with the PF-9 being basically the same in overall length and the P3AT ebing slightly smaller but the difference is in the thickness of the revolver. It's a 5 shot and is considerably thicker because of the cylinder. For holster carry there probably isn't a lot of difference but the revolver doesn't work in my pockets nearly as well as the semi's.
Don't get me wrong because I prefer shooting and handling revolvers. For my purposes, virtually all pocket carry, the pocket rockets fit better. 5, 6 or 7 rounds really isn't my main concern though I know it could be very important if I ever need it.

 

[CraigC]

Have you actually tried concealing a snub nose revolver, or are you just guessing?

Yes, I have.



Are you just guessing? A pocket .380 is smaller in every direction than a 2" J-frame. They're also thinner and disappear in a pocket. Either one does best in a pocket holster and the auto continues to shine.



The J-frame is more comparable to an Officer's length 1911.

 

[Old Fuff]

Question:

How many actual, real-life shooting incidents outside of law enforcement actions, can you cite where reloading was a factor?

While at it, in how many incidents did any participants run out of ammunition before everything was over?

Of course they're must be some, but they are few and far between and highly isolated.

 

[HighExpert]

As someone who has been involved in a real gunfight, I can tell you, when the chips are down there is no such thing as too much ammo. It all comes down to fast, accurate fire from the gun you have. I'm still here and I still wish I had had a few more rounds.