Benefits of coyote hunting

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matrem said:
I have noticed predators laying on the side of the road longer, "housecats" being the worst.
Always kinda thought the possums and buzzards didn't believe they were dead & instinct told em to keep away. ;)
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Or it could just be that predators and scavengers prefer the taste of plant eaters to other predators. It might even be an instinctual thing to avoid transmission of diseases they have in common. Mother Nature may not always make her reasons clear but she always has a reason. It's only mankind that commits stupid acts for the heck of it.
 
Hate to offend the delicate sensibilities of the non-hunters, but I do shoot for fun. When I was a kid we shot rats at the city dump. Also shot sparrows and starlings and gave the heads to the FFA boys who won prizes for the most kills. Yes, that's right, my high school FFA had a pest eradication program and gave points to the boys who killed mice, rats, sparrows, pigeons, starlings, and coyotes. Part of my family raise cattle and have chickens and farm cats. During calving season coyotes hang around for an opportunity, unless I see them first. I also shoot crows and lots of prairie dogs. Do I enjoy it? You bet. Oh I suppose I could claim some noble purpose because the ranchers are grateful when I report back to them how many I killed and yes I do eat all the squirrels, pheasants, and all other edible critters that I kill. But, the meat is not what joy motivates me. It is the joy of the hunt, being outdoors, and successful shooting, which means killing critters. The way I look at it, killing is the necessary byproduct of hunting. It goes with the territory.
 
It's only mankind that commits stupid acts for the heck of it.
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I did see two magpies buggering an old white tomcat several years back on a ditch bank. One would land in front of him a few yards, and the other one would land behind and nip his tail. When the cat swirled around the magpie would fly back a few yards and the other one would hop up and nip his tail. This went on for more than 5 minutes and they covered more than 50 yards with the magpies never getting more than 10 feet in the air and they switched positions several times. No trees around and no where near a magpie nest as far as I could tell. The old cat never laid a paw on either one. I'm baffled by that to this day. OYE
 
OYE said:
I did see two magpies buggering an old white tomcat several years back on a ditch bank. One would land in front of him a few yards, and the other one would land behind and nip his tail. When the cat swirled around the magpie would fly back a few yards and the other one would hop up and nip his tail. This went on for more than 5 minutes and they covered more than 50 yards with the magpies never getting more than 10 feet in the air and they switched positions several times. No trees around and no where near a magpie nest as far as I could tell. The old cat never laid a paw on either one. I'm baffled by that to this day. OYE
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I'm not sure of where you are but magpies make their nests out of mud. In drier climates that can be a rare commodity. It could easily be they were trying to lure (or drive) the cat away from a source so they could gather their nesting material in peace.
 
Coyotes killed my cat. Death to all coyotes. A clean death or any other kind is O K too.
 
Love them or hate them, one thing is fairly certain - hunters are extremely unlikely to ever threaten the coyote's existence. A study conducted by one of the California state universities (Sonoma State, I think) about 35-40 years ago to assess the effects of government trapping efforts on coyotes in Mendocino County (where sheep ranch losses to coyotes ran high) came to the conclusion that because of their fecundity, only culling the coyote population by something on the order of 90% per year for several consecutive years would produce a downward trend in their population. At the time, the estimated take due to trapping and hunting was around 10%. In other words, humans were having a negligible effect on coyote populations. As others have mentioned, they are quite at home living in proximity to humans, and their range is expanding into areas where there is no evidence of a historical presence.
 
Spare me the drama of starving kids, I really get tired of farmers and how the world would starve without them. It would also starve without tractors, diesel, factories, and mechanics.

The only kids who will starve are the farmers, and that is only if has one calf. It is about money. I am ok with that. Just spare me the melodrama.

As far as how good it is leave the carcass for the cycle of nature to feed off, does it feed more varmints that need to be shot?
 
Berserker said:
Spare me the drama of starving kids, I really get tired of farmers and how the world would starve without them. It would also starve without tractors, diesel, factories, and mechanics.

The only kids who will starve are the farmers, and that is only if has one calf. It is about money. I am ok with that. Just spare me the melodrama.

As far as how good it is leave the carcass for the cycle of nature to feed off, does it feed more varmints that need to be shot?
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Slappy made an emotional argument that was answered in kind. If that's drama to you- oh well. Or am I set to a different standard than the city people?

As for your last sentence - since you want to reach the condescending heights of "sparing you the drama" why are you providing your own? I've only said I do not eat vermin or use their hide. Nowhere have I mentioned disposal methods. If you care to discuss your concerns instead of talking down to me about them I'll consider your curiosity. Pronouncements on assumptions aren't worth my time. Or put in your own terms, spare me the drama of "this is what you do" when you haven't been within three counties of our operation.
 
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Berserker said:
I am not city people. Not sure where you got that idea.
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Reading comprehension problems as well. Since I was answering Slappy wouldn't the term be applied to him not you?


But feel free to inform me what our disposal methods are. Be sure to take in the number of cattle on site we have into consideration. Oh, and keep in mind that your "drama" post implied that we routinely and famously violate local, state and federal regulations so be very specific on your description of what our practices are.
 
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Berserker, your rant in Post #58 does not come across as a positive example of rational thought.
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+1 . I didn't understand what that was all about either. OYE
 
I guess, as the son of a rancher, the idea of someone starving...even if it is "only the son of a farmer" disturbs me a bit. I'm still not sure the intent of your misplaced rant is, but exactly what number should ranchers and farmers deem "acceptable" losses? At what point does it go from "being about the money" to "putting food on the plate"? Sure, its "all about the money". Most things relating to business are. However, that "money" IS responsible for putting food on plates, buying tractors and diesel, buying seed, etc. Its easy to dismiss the concerns of ranchers and farmers as being "all about the money" up until they no longer HAVE the money to produce YOUR food. Your short-sighted rant doesn't address anything, seemingly, aside from your apparent dislike or misunderstanding of farm and ranch life. It has nothing to do with hunting coyotes, or even how to effectively operate a profitable farm or ranch....all it serves is to epress your frustration that people give credit to farmers and ranchers for putting food on people's tables...........despite that being exactly what they do for a living.
 
Davek1977 said:
I guess, as the son of a rancher, the idea of someone starving...even if it is "only the son of a farmer" disturbs me a bit. I'm still not sure the intent of your misplaced rant is, but exactly what number should ranchers and farmers deem "acceptable" losses? At what point does it go from "being about the money" to "putting food on the plate"? Sure, its "all about the money". Most things relating to business are. However, that "money" IS responsible for putting food on plates, buying tractors and diesel, buying seed, etc. Its easy to dismiss the concerns of ranchers and farmers as being "all about the money" up until they no longer HAVE the money to produce YOUR food. Your short-sighted rant doesn't address anything, seemingly, aside from your apparent dislike or misunderstanding of farm and ranch life. It has nothing to do with hunting coyotes, or even how to effectively operate a profitable farm or ranch....all it serves is to epress your frustration that people give credit to farmers and ranchers for putting food on people's tables...........despite that being exactly what they do for a living.
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Hi Dave,

Usually when I run into that kind they turn out to be someone that collided with the "get big or get out" agricultural revisions in ancient times. In short the hobby farmers of a bygone era that prospered on gov subsidies in the name of saving the "family farm." While my Dad, uncle and grandfather sat at the table and discussed capital, profit margins and sustainable operations they were crying "Mr Roosevelt promised to take care of us."

As it is, I feel I've been accused of breaking several gov regulations issued by half a dozen agencies and I would like for this 'gentleman farmer' to list in detail just which of our practices he objects to.
 
Then came USDA's Earl Butz with a repeat of "Get big or get out." Next thing ya know, Willie Nelson's doing Farm Aid concerts. His first July 4th concert at Dripping Springs, Texas, was for a better cause.
 
To answer the OP's question, predator hunting is bad for the ecosystem. Natural predators prey on the young, old, sick, and weak. They help control diseases and create healthier populations of their prey species. On the other hand, human hunters almost without exception, kill the strong and healthy.

So why do we kill predator species? Because they also prey on livestock and pets and hunters see them as competitors for game species. It is cheaper to shoot, poison, and trap predators than to utilize other means of protecting livestock.

What are some of these methods? Keeping livestock grouped together for natural herd protection. This can be accomplished by herding or movable fencing. Livestock guardians can also be used. These can be large dogs, llamas, or donkeys depending on the situation. Donkeys work well for protecting livestock out on pasture because they eat grass so no special feed is needed.
 
JSH1 said:
To answer the OP's question, predator hunting is bad for the ecosystem. Natural predators prey on the young, old, sick, and weak. They help control diseases and create healthier populations of their prey species. On the other hand, human hunters almost without exception, kill the strong and healthy.

So why do we kill predator species? Because they also prey on livestock and pets and hunters see them as competitors for game species. It is cheaper to shoot, poison, and trap predators than to utilize other means of protecting livestock.
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In the ideal world you would be correct, should you ever find the ideal please don't forget to invite your friends. Natural predators are hunters of opportunity. Increase the food supply you increase the number of predators. Mankind has increased the food supply exponentially. There is a theory when a species population gets to a certain point there is a "cleansing" usually in the form of a pandemic. Problem is, any disease capable of thinning out the coyote population would also effect the domestic dog as in the case of rabies and many times such a bug can cross the species barrier to humans. Due to economic factors mankind cannot afford such a pandemic to happen. While it's true, the coyote is a competitor it's also one of the segments that man has been given dominion over. We have eradicated or curtailed the diseases that keep their population in check. The "birth control" experiments on pest species have failed miserably. What population control method would you suggest that is equally effective as a rifle? And keep in mind that the great white father in Indianapolis frowns on me keeping artillery with anti-personnel shells and RPG's which would be far more effective. There is just no pleasing that guy!
 
To answer the OP's question, predator hunting is bad for the ecosystem. Natural predators prey on the young, old, sick, and weak. They help control diseases and create healthier populations of their prey species. On the other hand, human hunters almost without exception, kill the strong and healthy.

So why do we kill predator species? Because they also prey on livestock and pets and hunters see them as competitors for game species. It is cheaper to shoot, poison, and trap predators than to utilize other means of protecting livestock.
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I don't agree much of any of these declarations.

I half of this country, coyotes are an invasive species, living where they were not traditionally present. They compete with and have had a negative impact on native predators.

Humans rarely get a lineup of game to pick and choose from. They thin the dumbest, and the least wary from herd. Anybody who hunts can tell you that park animals behave totally different than animals that get hunted, and that animals that get hunted are far less likely to have a bad encounter with humans.

I've never seen a hunter support the use of poison for predators. Its illegal in most places. Hunters do see uncontrolled populations of coyotes having a negative effect on game animals. Most efforts to protect pets and livestock are effective by the active pursuit rather than the actual success of predator huntng. See paragraph about taking the dumbest and most unwary, and leaving behind a healthy fear of humans.
 
It would be easier to discuss things on this site, if you could quote the posts you are replying to, easily. I have never seen a forum like this. I realize no one likes the new go saying how other places are, but this place is rare.

I am not against hunting coyotes, and I am not against farmers killing them in the interest of protecting their live stock. I was commenting on a post that implied we were all going to starve to death cause the coyote would kill our food supply. I am not worried.

On that same topic, most farmers hate deer and want them gone, and many coyotes hunters shoot coyotes to protect deer.

As for local regulations on the disposal of coyote bodies I don't really care what they are. I was just point out if you let them lie, like most do, you are feeding other varmits, that we want to don't want either.
 
Berserker said:
As for local regulations on the disposal of coyote bodies I don't really care what they are. I was just point out if you let them lie, like most do, you are feeding other varmits, that we want to don't want either.
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Like most do? And I take you have reported those many incidents you have seen? What was the reaction of the Conservation Officer? Have you hunted in the Tippecanoe watershed of Indiana? If so how many shot up coyote carcasses did you see there? Did you fail to report any of them? I see you are in Wisconsin which has the same fed water regs as my state does. If "most do" why am I not seeing a lot more reports on the problem through the USDA? Are they trying to keep secrets? Or are you?
 
Why would I report something I said I don't care about? As for not seeing reports, most people I know don't care either.
 
I don't agree much of any of these declarations.
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I do too.

I half of this country, coyotes are an invasive species, living where they were not traditionally present. They compete with and have had a negative impact on native predators.
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I also disagree with this. Humans have this strange belief that ecosystems are stable and unchanging. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ecosystems are continually changing, at different speeds in different parts of the world, but they continually change. The notion that a "traditional range" for a native species should be a limiting factor for it is absurd. What is the "traditional range" is just a geologically recent arbitrary definition. It is sort of an eco-fogeyism.

Coyotes are invasive? Interesting consideration. They, like deer, will fill a niche absence, in this case the one largely created by humans by the removal of other predators in the eastern half of the US. If you remove the competition or delimiting factors for in species and offer it vast resources in climatic conditions where it can survive, it will become "invasive."
Humans rarely get a lineup of game to pick and choose from. They thin the dumbest, and the least wary from herd. Anybody who hunts can tell you that park animals behave totally different than animals that get hunted, and that animals that get hunted are far less likely to have a bad encounter with humans.

Is there a need to keep them in check? Sure. There is a need to keep a lot of critters in check. Interestingly, a lot of people worry about deer because the coyotes kill deer, but then a lot of farmers fight the deer because they damage crops. You might even say that the deer invade habitat not part of their traditional habitat.

Predator hunting is not bad for the ecosystem until it is taken to extremes, and then things go into rapid change. If you move out one type of animal, another will simply take its place.
 
Berserker said:
Why would I report something I said I don't care about? As for not seeing reports, most people I know don't care either.
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I see, you want to accuse persons of breaking a regulation with the force of law but you don't care about it. Kindly stay in Wisconsin, Bubba. Our little slice of Indiana has enough problems with the influx of Chicago people. Someone like you would make them acceptable by comparison. Here in cattle country we have a technical term for people like you. Unfortunately Sister Beatrice frowns on my using that kind of language.
 
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