Berry’s 158 Grain FP Load Question

[Cokeman]

I am getting ready to load Berry’s 158 grain FP with HP-38. I got this data from the Hodgdon site. They only list a LSWC. Would that be considered the same thing or close enough?

 

[PO2Hammer]

38 special? 357 Magnum?

 

[Charlie98]

38 special? 357 Magnum?

Note the trim length: .38SPC.

That data should work if you are looking for a light load, otherwise I would use the data for the XTP.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I've always used jacketed data for plated bullets, but most data overlaps, so you're safe starting there.

 

[anothernewb]

4.0 grains under a 158 in 38 spl is a pretty solid combo. lost count of the number of those I've fired over the years.

 

[e rex]

Look up some data for Winchester 231. I never bother with hodgdon data. I load a 150 grain 358477 bullet over 4.5 grains of HP-38 and it is a nice load.

 

[Cokeman]

38 special? 357 Magnum?

Sorry, 38 Special.

 

[Cokeman]

Look up some data for Winchester 231. I never bother with hodgdon data. I load a 150 grain 358477 bullet over 4.5 grains of HP-38 and it is a nice load.

Where? The Hodgdon site shows that powder too and it’s the same load data. Is there somewhere better to look?

 

[Cokeman]

4.0 grains under a 158 in 38 spl is a pretty solid combo. lost count of the number of those I've fired over the years.

C.O.L. of 1.475”?

 

[Charlie98]

Where? The Hodgdon site shows that powder too and it’s the same load data. Is there somewhere better to look?

No... that Hodgdon data is valid, and is the most current available. You could cross reference it with other loading books, but it will likely be with yet again different bullets. Your data is fine.

C.O.L. of 1.475”?

Depends on the bullet... there are only about a zillion 158grn .358" bullet designs out there from the Beginning of Time. Assuming you don't have a crimp groove, 1.475" would be a good place to start.

 

[anothernewb]

C.O.L. of 1.475”?

load to the crimp groove, or cannelure. if the bullet has neither, find the closest profile you can in a loading book and load it to that length.

 

[kmw1954]

I understand this will be of no help for your Hodgdon load but it is also one of the primary reasons I have switched to using Western Powders; Accurate and Ramshot. Because the do actually have published data for Berry's plated bullets.

Western lists an OAL of 1.430 for the Berry's Flat Point bullet in the 38 Spl.

 

[Cokeman]

So I’ve been busy and am now ready to load 38 Special. I am planning to use this data
Berry’s 158 grain plated flat point no crimp groove
HP-38 3.1-3.7 grains
COAL 1.475
686 3 inch barrel



Charlie98 suggested I could use the XTP data which is this. Can I do that with the bullet that I am using? The COAL is shorter for the XTP. Why are the grains higher and the velocities are lower than the LSWC?



This site shows many grain weights for HP-38 and Win 231. Can I use those that are higher than the Hodgdon site data above? I don’t know how trustworthy this data is except the data that mirrors the Hodgdon site data. I don’t want to do the wrong thing. I’m not interested in a light load, but if I need to start there, I will.

 

[Cokeman]

4.0 grains under a 158 in 38 spl is a pretty solid combo. lost count of the number of those I've fired over the years.

4.0 grains of HP-38, right?

 

[Walkalong]

3.1 is going to be very light, make sure all bullets exit the barrel.

 

[mokin]

I agree with Charlie98. I use XTP data with Berry's and I'm usually pleased with the results. I recently loaded a bunch of rounds for my .357 using the 158 grain FPTP that shoot very well. The only problem I've had is not enough crimp and some of the bullets scoot out of the case.

 

[joneb]

I am getting ready to load Berry’s 158 grain FP with HP-38.

I have had very good results with Xtreme's plated158gr FP with W-231 and SPP seated midway to the cannelure.
I would start at 4.0gr of W-231. COL ?

 

[Cokeman]

3.1 is going to be very light, make sure all bullets exit the barrel.

Closer to 3.6 or 3.7?

 

[lordpaxman]

Charlie98 suggested I could use the XTP data which is this. Can I do that with the bullet that I am using? The COAL is shorter for the XTP. Why are the grains higher and the velocities are lower than the LSWC?

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

I prefer to use jacketed data if plated data isn’t available. I stuck a plated bullet in my 6” 686 using starting lead data. Jacketed bullets require more pressure, therefore more powder, to obturate. You’ll be fine using the XTP .38 special data, either COL will work and I suspect in your 686 you won’t even notice the difference other than perhaps grouping. And your 686 is a .357 magnum revolver, it gives you another layer of safety, although I’m not advocating unsafe reloading. Good luck.

 

[buck460XVR]

The Hodgdon site shows that powder too and it’s the same load data. Is there somewhere better to look?

That's because HP-38 and W231 are the exact same powder and thus recipes for one can be used for the other. Plated bullets generally can not be pushed as fast as regular jacketed(especially magnums) unless noted by the manufacturer to have a thicker jacket. Thus I generally will not go above middle of the road jacketed recipes with them.

 

[Cokeman]

https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq

I prefer to use jacketed data if plated data isn’t available. I stuck a plated bullet in my 6” 686 using starting lead data. Jacketed bullets require more pressure, therefore more powder, to obturate. You’ll be fine using the XTP .38 special data, either COL will work and I suspect in your 686 you won’t even notice the difference other than perhaps grouping. And your 686 is a .357 magnum revolver, it gives you another layer of safety, although I’m not advocating unsafe reloading. Good luck.

So I’m safe to load up to 4.3 grains with either 1.445 or 1.475 COAL, right? I don’t want to start at 3.1 grains. What’s a good starting point?

 

[PO2Hammer]

Plated bullets have the same slick copper surface as any jacketed bullet, they're just a bit softer.
I always use starting loads for jacketed bullet data.
When I had a chrono, plated load velocity always matched up closely with jacketed data.

 

[lordpaxman]

So I’m safe to load up to 4.3 grains with either 1.445 or 1.475 COAL, right? I don’t want to start at 3.1 grains. What’s a good starting point?

If it were me, I’d start with the 3.8gr of 231. Only load 6 and see how the fire in your 686. I would bet coffee you’ll find them to be quite soft, make sure they exit the barrel. I worked up loads for a 158gr plated Ranier HP and 231, which is slightly different from your bullet, but loaded them at 1.455 and worked up to the max load on Hodgdon’s site. Even with a 6” barrel their velocity was less than expected. Grouping got better at the top end in my case, YMMV. Good luck.

 

[rfwobbly]

...am now ready to load 38 Special. I am planning to use this data...
Berry’s 158 grain plated flat point no crimp groove
HP-38 3.1-3.7 grains
COAL 1.475
686 3 inch barrel

• The entire focus of your load data research is chamber pressure. Everything we do in reloading is to control chamber pressure.
• The gun you use also makes a big difference. The max allowable chamber pressure is different for 38Spcl, 38Spcl+P, and 357Mag.
• S&W 686 is built for 357Mag loads, so your maximum load is actually much higher than your data indicates.

Hope this helps.

 

[Cokeman]

If it were me, I’d start with the 3.8gr of 231. Only load 6 and see how the fire in your 686. I would bet coffee you’ll find them to be quite soft, make sure they exit the barrel. I worked up loads for a 158gr plated Ranier HP and 231, which is slightly different from your bullet, but loaded them at 1.455 and worked up to the max load on Hodgdon’s site. Even with a 6” barrel their velocity was less than expected. Grouping got better at the top end in my case, YMMV. Good luck.

Max load of 4.3 grains for the XTP load?