Berry's 9mm HHP

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Artofgolf said:
I measured the length (sample of 10) of the 9mm HHP's 124gr.
They were consistent @ 0.538" to 0.539" throughout.

A little shorter than Gold-Dot 124gr bullets with their elongated ogive.
I would urge a bit of caution if you get some & try to load using GD published data.
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Artofgolf, thanks again for the taking the time to provide us with the measurements.

The elongated ogive is not a good thing for 357sig, so I will probably wait for Berry's to list the 9mm HHP and see if they include 357sig suggested information. GD has a bullet specific for 357sig, which I have never been able to find locally.
 
I sent an email to Berry's regarding loading these HHP's in 357sig and 38 Super and received the following response:

The 9mm 124gr HHP is designed for a velocity of 1100fps. This bullet will work in a .357 Sig or a .38 Super, but you need to load for a velocity of 1100fps so they will perform as designed.

We recommend the following COL’s:
9mm 1.060”
.357 Sig 1.135”
.38 Super 1.250”
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So it seems that it has to be loaded down for 357sig and 38 Super. I'm not sure if it is worth it to load it in 357sig if you need to load it down to 9mm velocities.
 
vaalpens said:
... I'm not sure if it is worth it to load it in 357sig if you need to load it down to 9mm velocities.
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I'm pleased that Berry's replied to your question with specific information about the HHP 124gr.
The label on the packaging was 1125 fps. Minor difference ~ I think they may have been addressing the ideal velocity-for-expansion, but I could be mistaken.
I guess we'll sort it out over time...
Thanks for posting this, vaalpens :cool:
 
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I sent an email to Berry's regarding loading these HHP's in 357sig and 38 Super and received the following response:

Quote:
The 9mm 124gr HHP is designed for a velocity of 1100fps. This bullet will work in a .357 Sig or a .38 Super, but you need to load for a velocity of 1100fps so they will perform as designed.

We recommend the following COL’s:
9mm 1.060”
.357 Sig 1.135”
.38 Super 1.250”
So it seems that it has to be loaded down for 357sig and 38 Super. I'm not sure if it is worth it to load it in 357sig if you need to load it down to 9mm velocities.
Click to expand...

Vaalpens, I wonder if Berrys meant the 1100 fps was the LOWER limit to ensure expansion? That would mean we'd be able to load to the potential top limit of the 357 sig and 38 super.

I'm going to go order some from PV, I'll load some then test expansion in thebullettube expansion media. It's a special wax that is supposed to simulate muscle tissue. I've shown results from other expansion experiments here and on other forums. I'll use my CZ-75B, and my Ruger LC-9. Eventually also in my 357 Sig which is a converted M-22 glock.
 
Both .38 Super and .357 Sig have "normal" velocities above 1,100. Based on the way their reply was written, I'd say that's more likely the speed limit of these particular bullets. Time and testing (or a follow up email) will tell.
 
NUTS!

I should have never gone to PV, so far the total is 350 bucks, they haven't even calculated the shipping yet! Got some CFE-pistol 2# 4000 each small rifle and small pistol winchesters and what I went there for, the Berry's HHP's.

Oh well, it saved me a trip to the LGS, to find they might have had the primers, but @$35.00 instead of the $27.50 at PV. I saved enough on the powder and, primers to more than pay the hazmat fees.
 
snuffy said:
I should have never gone to PV, so far the total is 350 bucks, they haven't even calculated the shipping yet! Got some CFE-pistol 2# 4000 each small rifle and small pistol winchesters and what I went there for, the Berry's HHP's.

Oh well, it saved me a trip to the LGS, to find they might have had the primers, but @$35.00 instead of the $27.50 at PV. I saved enough on the powder and, primers to more than pay the hazmat fees.
Click to expand...
It's a fever that happens to many of us. :)
 
Havok7416 said:
Both .38 Super and .357 Sig have "normal" velocities above 1,100. Based on the way their reply was written, I'd say that's more likely the speed limit of these particular bullets. Time and testing (or a follow up email) will tell.
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I will follow up with an email to get clarification, but the statement obviously made me pause.

They also included some additional information I did not include in my original post since it looks like their normal information and does not include any HHP specific information. Following is what I omitted:

We do not research or publish the load data, but you can use any published load data for a jacketed bullet, or a lead bullet, as long as it is the same weight bullet. Any of the load data books or the powder manufacturers’ website should have that information for you, as long as you keep them under 1250 fps for our standard bullet or 1500fps for the bullets designated as TP (thick plate).

I have attached our chart with the recommended Case Overall Length for all our bullets to help with seating depths for those bullets. This chart has not been updated with the 9mm HHP information.

We recommend very little crimp on the bullet, just enough to put pressure against the bullet without denting or deforming the plating. If you were to pull the bullet out of a case with the proper crimp you would find no more than a scratch on the surface of the plating. If you are denting or deforming the bullet your accuracy will suffer and the bullet may start to tumble before it hits the target.
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snuffy said:
Vaalpens, I wonder if Berrys meant the 1100 fps was the LOWER limit to ensure expansion? That would mean we'd be able to load to the potential top limit of the 357 sig and 38 super.

I'm going to go order some from PV, I'll load some then test expansion in thebullettube expansion media. It's a special wax that is supposed to simulate muscle tissue. I've shown results from other expansion experiments here and on other forums. I'll use my CZ-75B, and my Ruger LC-9. Eventually also in my 357 Sig which is a converted M-22 glock.
Click to expand...

I followed up with another email, so hopefully I will get a response today or tomorrow.

Please let us know how the testing goes in thebullettube expansion media. I am obviously looking forward to your 357sig test.
 
I received the following update from Berry's:

If you want the 9mm 124gr HHP to perform as designed we suggest loading to the recommended velocity of 1125fps. Velocities that are higher or lower may result in less than ideal performance. Remember, the intention of the hollow point is to cause the bullet to expand without coming apart.

The bullet itself could easily handle higher velocities, but if you want ideal performance we suggest avoiding anything above 1125fps. As you know rounds will vary in velocity and the bullet will slow as distance increases. If loaded at 1125fps you should get reliable performance round after round.
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My experience with Berry's has been that they are very good in responding to questions from the public. I have been very impressed so far.

I am still debating if I want to try the HHP's in 357sig, but with the latest response from Berry's, I think everybody now has a clear understanding of the target velocity for maximum performance. I know I do.

Let the testing begin.
 
I'll load some up to the sig levels to test as well as the 9mm. I have enough of the tubes to test both 9's and the 357 sig.IF these are truly bonded bullets, I can't see them flying apart from higher velocity. My expansion tests with gold dots showed the lead clinging to the copper plate even when turned inside out. But we shall see!
 
snuffy said:
... I have enough of the tubes to test both 9's and the 357 sig.
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I think those tubes are a better idea than water-filled bottles & wet-pack.
I remember that you mentioned they were purchased from Sportsmen Guide.
After lookin' there, I tried to find them - no luck. Snuffy, have you seen them for sale elsewhere? Thanks :cool:
 
His statement is in line with other bullet designs. Most hollowpoints will open to varying degrees based on their velocity, but few if any are likely to actually come apart.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffy View Post
... I have enough of the tubes to test both 9's and the 357 sig.
I think those tubes are a better idea than water-filled bottles & wet-pack.
I remember that you mentioned they were purchased from Sportsmen Guide.
After lookin' there, I tried to find them - no luck. Snuffy, have you seen them for sale elsewhere? Thanks
Click to expand...

Unfortunately they are now out-of-business. The Obummer economy got them, few people would pay for specialty bullet testing equipment in a downer economy. I got mine from Brownells, they bought all remaining stock, then sold them t

They would sell the new tubes that you use once you cut the test tube apart to recover the bullet.I got mine from Brownells, they bought all remaining stock, sold them until they ran out. Since they're OOB, you can't get the new tubes to re-do them once you cut them open to recover the bullet. I found some heavy duty mailing tubes from Uline that work just fine. Recovery involves melting the wax, then re-casting it into a new tube. Takes several days, you just can't hurry the process by turning up the heat. Wax shrinks badly if it's too hot when poured, ask any candle maker. Hot wax = Voids in the casting, = lost bullets/boolits.

There's a specialty wax business here in Oshkosh, I'm going to take a sample of theTesttube wax to him to see if they have something like it or could make a small run of some. I only have about 25 pounds, and no more to be found.

expansion%20test%20002.jpg

expansion%20test%20003.jpg

Oh, that's a .223 60 grain Nosler partition. More .223 tests to come--------------!
 
Looks like that wax compound works pretty good - clearly defined in the cutaway pic. Thanks for posting and, if you would, let me know how you make out @ the specialty wax business mentioned. AoG
 
Artofgolf said:
I've got a box of 250 on the way....
Click to expand...

I was itchin' to try the HHP's and worked-up a 40 round ladder of ten each to test thru the G-19 & with a new rear sight on my carbine.

New_ironS2kG2.jpg (click on image to expand)

Fair grouping for the first round of tests: high & left

Load data used:
*Caution* Information presented was +P Western Powders published information. Load was safe from the firearms used for this test but not recommended for others.

View attachment HHP_test.pdf (click on image to expand)

The range from 5.6gr to 5.9gr. was at the upper-end and did not perform well :( through the G-19. (7 yds. supported)
Previous testing indicated that the 5.4gr charge of Silhouette performed appreciably better with a bullet (Zero) weight around 124gr./125.

Carbine testing @ 20 yards (rest) was acceptable to me.

RD_S2Kg2.png (click on image to expand)

One of my goals is to find a HHP recipe that properly expands & performs well in both firearms.
I have a feeling that Silhouette may need to be replaced with N-340, as it's not capable, IMO, of safely generating 1125 fps :scrutiny:
Suggestions & comments are welcome .....:)
 
Artofgolf said:
I was itchin' to try the HHP's and worked-up a 40 round ladder of ten each to test thru the G-19 & with a new rear sight on my carbine.

View attachment 215361 (click on image to expand)

Fair grouping for the first round of tests: high & left

Load data used:
*Caution* Information presented was +P Western Powders published information. Load was safe from the firearms used for this test but not recommended for others.

View attachment 215362 (click on image to expand)

The range from 5.6gr to 5.9gr. was at the upper-end and did not perform well :( through the G-19. (7 yds. supported)
Previous testing indicated that the 5.4gr charge of Silhouette performed appreciably better with a bullet (Zero) weight around 124gr./125.

Carbine testing @ 20 yards (rest) was acceptable to me.

View attachment 215363 (click on image to expand)

One of my goals is to find a HHP recipe that properly expands & performs well in both firearms.
I have a feeling that Silhouette may need to be replaced with N-340, as it's not capable, IMO, of safely generating 1125 fps :scrutiny:
Suggestions & comments are welcome .....:)
Click to expand...
3N37, N340, Power Pistol, and AutoComp, are my preferred powders for 124gr 9mm loads. Any of those powders will easily get you to 1100-1150 from a 4"bbl without exceeding max. The first three have always given me great accuracy with 124gr plated and with XTPs. Autocomp can be just as accurate, but it required a little more tweaking to hit the sweet spot.
 
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