Best bullet for 5.56 self defense?

[David Hoback]

Oh deer... we have a few of the “Hydrostatic Shock” Myth, crowd. “This super new bullet will literally SHOCK the person to death with its KNOCK DOWN POWA!”....”That sounds Shocking! I’m quite Shocked!” LOL!

I do agree with the above that I’d be ok using any of ‘em!

Although, I think you mean MK262 MOD 1.......which uses a 77gr OTM and is NOT the same as M855 as your post indicates.

 

[entropy]

Temporary cavity, then if that suits you better.

 

[Boattale]

I picked up two boxes of Remington 62 grain bonded corelokt for the use being discussed in this thread. They will also serve to deer hunt with should I choose to do so.

 

[C-grunt]

Not all varmint rounds are created equal. My departments duty so uses a 55 grain Sierra Gameking bullet which is a hollowpoinf boat tail load. According to Sierra is designed for varmints and small game.

I can tell you from experience that this round are very effective. It will give massive fragmentation and still penetrate enough even after going through an arm.

 

[briansmithwins]

I’m not saying my choice of 50gr v-max varmint loads is the best choice for everyone, just that in my circumstances it’s the best for me. I live in a town house and my closest neighbors are 2 sheets of drywall and some sound insulation away. I know the rounds I’m using have crap penetration but in my situation it’s the best compromise between terminal effectiveness and endangering innocent people.

If I lived in the country I’d very likely be using the Speer GDs as they are a good solid choice.

BSW

 

[JShirley]

Oh deer... we have a few of the “Hydrostatic Shock” Myth, crowd. “This super new bullet will literally SHOCK the person to death with its KNOCK DOWN POWA!”....”That sounds Shocking! I’m quite Shocked!” LOL!

I do agree with the above that I’d be ok using any of ‘em!

Although, I think you mean MK262 MOD 1.......which uses a 77gr OTM and is NOT the same as M855 as your post indicates.

I'm not sure if you were talking to me. I have a lot of MK 262, as well as some m855 plus lots of other things, such as good old m193, 62 grain gold Dot, and AE 50 grain HP. My point was that it's possible to cover all reasonable bases with just two rounds. (In my case, that could be MK 262 and M855. For others, it might be
T556TNB1 and M193.)

 

[horsey300]

Mk 262 is more effective at almost everything, except barrier penetration. A bit of research, and perhaps a moderate bit of testing, should allow any reasonably intelligent member to cover all bases with 2 rounds.

I probably have at least 6 different kinds of .223 & 5.56, but MK 262 "+1" (M855, etc) would be fine with me.

John

This, this, this.
I have some mags loaded for soft stuff, and other mags loaded with m855/Barnes type stuff. The splodey bullets are to take care of the average squishy targets, whilst the harder bullets make sure that cover is turned into concealment when necessary.

 

[David Hoback]

I'm not sure if you were talking to me. I have a lot of MK 262, as well as some m855 plus lots of other things, such as good old m193, 62 grain gold Dot, and AE 50 grain HP. My point was that it's possible to cover all reasonable bases with just two rounds. (In my case, that could be MK 262 and M855. For others, it might be
T556TNB1 and M193.)

I agree with that 100%.

 

[David Hoback]

I’m not saying my choice of 50gr v-max varmint loads is the best choice for everyone, just that in my circumstances it’s the best for me. I live in a town house and my closest neighbors are 2 sheets of drywall and some sound insulation away. I know the rounds I’m using have crap penetration but in my situation it’s the best compromise between terminal effectiveness and endangering innocent people.

Indeed, I would feel VERY comfortable with your 50gr V-max loads. That round will stop ANY threat that would invade your home, set on causing harm to you & yours.

The damage that little ballistic tip will do to a human body, at a close range is horrifying.

 

[sarduy]

This is the way i see it. Best SD ammo is whatever you have loaded in your gun. As long as the gun is reliable and you can hit your target. A double tap from 55gr FMJ to center mass will do the job in SD scenario.
What’s more important than Bullet selection is Training and target identification.
Train yourself around your house, train your family on what to do and have a baby plan ready.

 

[JShirley]

M193 from a 16" or longer barrel is very effective at short range. It's also probably the cheapest US-made ammo available. if I didn't have a source for MK 262, I would probably have all my 5.56s except for my 11 inch loaded with M193.

I *do* think there are some better and worse SD/HD choices, but far more important is having a gun, knowing how to use it, knowing when to use it, and having the will to use it.

John

 

[MarshallDodge]

75 Gold Dot is my choice because it is very accurate in my guns (MOA in the AR, sub MOA in the Tikka), reliable, and has a good track record.

The 64 Gold Dot and Winchester PSP are good as well.

M193 from a 16" or longer barrel is very effective at short range. It's also probably the cheapest US-made ammo available. if I didn't have a source for MK 262, I would probably have all my 5.56s except for my 11 inch loaded with M193.

I *do* think there are some better and worse SD/HD choices, but far more important is having a gun, knowing how to use it, knowing when to use it, and having the will to use it.

John

Totally agree with this!

You can argue caliber and ammo all day long but if you cannot shoot your guns well, it doesn't matter.

 

[peacebutready]

I have never seen 5.56 fail to perform well against people (esp at short range) when the bullet(s) are placed in the vital plumbing. I have witnessed and participated in numerous "tests" of 5.56. This includes 55 grain ball, 62 grain "green tip", 77 grain MK 262, and 75 grain Hornady BTHP match. The main advantage of the heavier bullets was the accuracy and effects at longer range.

I heard complaints regarding green tip at range beyond say 100 yards. Maybe it didn't hit the vitals.

 

[Garandimal]

M193 55 gr. ball acts more like a HG round than a rifle round at high velocity.

​

Which makes it a good SD round.

It is also a ball training round, so it is inexpensive to practice with, and it shoots well from 1:9 twist carbines like my 580 Series Mini-14.

So LC, or Wolf Gold, is what I have loaded at any given time.




GR

 

[peacebutready]

M193 55 gr. ball acts more like a HG round than a rifle round at high velocity.

​

Which makes it a good SD round.

It is also a ball training round, so it is inexpensive to practice with, and it shoots well from 1:9 twist carbines like my 580 Series Mini-14.

So LC, or Wolf Gold, is what I have loaded at any given time....

M193 doesn't penetrate in gel as much as good handgun hollow point rounds. M193 penetration seems more shallow than it should be when the target is close. A good soft point or monolithic bullet penetrates better and within the 18" they say is optimum.

Soft point and monolithic bullets are better for deer than fmj. That means they should be better for bad humans.

 

[FL-NC]

I heard complaints regarding green tip at range beyond say 100 yards. Maybe it didn't hit the vitals.

I have seen varied results with single hits to the vitals out to the 300-350 meter distance, not just with green tip. These results varied from "rag doll" to the guy dropping and flopping around for a while. The only constants I personally saw under these conditions:1- A good hit to the vitals at these longer distances (100- 350-ish) was either immediately fatal, or very quickly took the enemy out of the fight, in the sense that he was more concerned with the leakage, onset of shock, difficulty breathing, etc. than returning fire at us (where we were a respectable distance away) with his AK, PKM, RPG, or whatever he happened to have. I also never saw anyone take a solid hit to the vitals and "shake it off" or "just keep coming like nothing happened". 2- a hit somewhere other than the vitals with anything is likely going to be crap. I ran past a man with his leg hanging on by a strip of skin (essentially amputated) by a 7.62 round from a M240 MG trying to escape by crawling away, and doing a pretty good job of it. Of course, adults in these countries typically have the muscle mass of a small child in the US, but that's not the point- his leg was still coming off. If he was capable of doing that, then he was capable of firing his AK (which he had abandoned down the block where he was hit). The reason he didn't do it was that he CHOSE not to. I also saw one that got hit in the butt cheek by a 5.56 that exited out of the front through his intestines continue to fight for a while. As with all things, shot placement is king.

 

[JERRY]

any of them will be minute of man accurate at 100 yards, so go with the ones the least expensive so you can stock up.

 

[David Hoback]

Most don’t speak of it so openly, except for in private and to certain family/friends. I’ve discussed wounding effects with my father & younger brother, who were both combat Marines in separate times, wars and even using slightly different rifles ammunition.(obviously both were M16’s, but my Dad was issued an M16A1 & M193 in 1969 & my brother, issued an M4 with M855 in 2004).

My father tells me the story how he was actually among the last troops to trade their M14s for M16s. The problems(which are blown FAR out of proportion), were remedied by the time my Dad received his. Although he, like everyone else, was skeptical in the beginning. He loved his M14. But he tells that every bit of doubt left after their first fire fight using their new M16s. My Dad says that not only did his M16 function flawlessly, but these new tiny-little “5.56“ rounds WORKED! A center mass hit STOPPED an attacker immediately! He has also told me that cleaning usually consisted of separating upper & lower, pulling the BCG and dunking the components in a barrel of kerosene. Followed by wiping it dry. He can’t remember a single other Marine complaining about the weapon...Period.

My younger brother who served two tours in Iraq, was issued an M4. This was 2004, and again, he never speaks ill of the the weapon or the ammunition. My brother doesn’t speak quite as openly as father, perhaps because of the amount of time healing wounds and such. He’s never spoken specifics as far as firefights. But he has mentioned on several occasions that his weapon performed without fail. He is LEO now, for many years in fact...and he holds his AR15 to a high amount of respect.

I trust the 5.56x45 because it’s been kick in’ butt & taking names pushing 55 years. Besides the fact I myself am quite knowledgeable of weapons & ammunition ballistics...Far more than either my father or brother, it’s research knowledge....Theory. Much of it proven, yes..but theory nonetheless These two men in my family who’s opinions I hold in extremely high regard are combat Marines. They have used these weapons as I have not.

 

[FFGColorado]

I have seen varied results with single hits to the vitals out to the 300-350 meter distance, not just with green tip. These results varied from "rag doll" to the guy dropping and flopping around for a while. The only constants I personally saw under these conditions:1- A good hit to the vitals at these longer distances (100- 350-ish) was either immediately fatal, or very quickly took the enemy out of the fight, in the sense that he was more concerned with the leakage, onset of shock, difficulty breathing, etc. than returning fire at us (where we were a respectable distance away) with his AK, PKM, RPG, or whatever he happened to have. I also never saw anyone take a solid hit to the vitals and "shake it off" or "just keep coming like nothing happened". 2- a hit somewhere other than the vitals with anything is likely going to be crap. I ran past a man with his leg hanging on by a strip of skin (essentially amputated) by a 7.62 round from a M240 MG trying to escape by crawling away, and doing a pretty good job of it. Of course, adults in these countries typically have the muscle mass of a small child in the US, but that's not the point- his leg was still coming off. If he was capable of doing that, then he was capable of firing his AK (which he had abandoned down the block where he was hit). The reason he didn't do it was that he CHOSE not to. I also saw one that got hit in the butt cheek by a 5.56 that exited out of the front through his intestines continue to fight for a while. As with all things, shot placement is king.

Yikes..thanks for your service...

 

[Hasaf]

55 gr. V-Max or 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint. I've seen what they do to the chest cavities of deer and coyotes at close range. My AR pistol has been loaded with them since the Mpls. riots.

I was going to say the 40 grain V-Max. To my knowledge, it is the lowest dry-wall penetrating, legitimate defensive round. I keep wanting to do my own comparison between it and the 22tcm, which is getting down there in defensive power level.

Yes, I see less wall penetration as a good thing.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I was going to say the 40 grain V-Max. To my knowledge, it is the lowest dry-wall penetrating, legitimate defensive round. I keep wanting to do my own comparison between it and the 22tcm, which is getting down there in defensive power level.

Yes, I see less wall penetration as a good thing.

I would be concerned about 40 grain bullets in a fast twist gun. They're probably okay in a pistol but 16" and longer could increase the velocity enough to have then come apart before reachingthe target.

 

[briansmithwins]

I would be concerned about 40 grain bullets in a fast twist gun. They're probably okay in a pistol but 16" and longer could increase the velocity enough to have then come apart before reachingthe target.

I've shot a lot of the 40hr and 50gr v-max out of rifles with 1/7 twist barrels. They make round holes in targets at 200 yards. They will come apart if they hit grass as I found out when I took a shot at a rabbit (that was hiding behind a bunch of dried grass) with one.

There is no 'best' bullet for self defense the same way there isn't a 'best' vehicle. I can't haul 2 cubic yards of gravel in my car, and it'd be silly to commute to work in a dump truck.

For me, in my circumstances, I've chosen a light varmint bullet. For another person the 64gr Speer GDs are best. If the people you need to shoot are wearing body armor AP is best...

BSW

 

[David Hoback]

Repost

 

[alsaqr]

According to Sierra is designed for varmints and small game.

It does well on larger animals too. My grand-daughter has killed several deer with the 55 grain Sierra Game King bullet, fired from my handloads: All one shot kills. i've killed 200 pound hogs with that bullet.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I've shot a lot of the 40hr and 50gr v-max out of rifles with 1/7 twist barrels. They make round holes in targets at 200 yards. They will come apart if they hit grass as I found out when I took a shot at a rabbit (that was hiding behind a bunch of dried grass) with one.

There is no 'best' bullet for self defense the same way there isn't a 'best' vehicle. I can't haul 2 cubic yards of gravel in my car, and it'd be silly to commute to work in a dump truck.

For me, in my circumstances, I've chosen a light varmint bullet. For another person the 64gr Speer GDs are best. If the people you need to shoot are wearing body armor AP is best...

BSW

You want something that will penetrate. If you have a situation where your target has heavy clothing, etc. then you don't want the bullet exploding when it hits the surface of the clothing.