Best combat revolver?

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I was issued a Model 15 for Aircrew duty in the AF during the Vietnam era. VP is a Marine or Navy unit designation? No being contentious just curious. I thought the Navy also went with the 15, but I know things were never entirely monolithic.

I hesitate to even say this as it has started an opinion storm before but I saw a Thompson at Tan Son Nhut in '74 or '75 and I'm sure that wasn't on anyones to & e.

P.S. Korea was also a different era....duh.:eek:
 
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VP is U.S Navy designation for "heavier than air." VP-871 was a patrol squadron equipped with PB4Y2 Privateer multi-engine aircraft during the Korean War.

CH-4Korea.gif

The aircraft had 12 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in six turrets It carried, flares, bombs, torpedoes and mines. It flew 12 hour recon missions, protected the fleet doing ASW and supported UN ground troups dropping flares at night illuminating ChiCom troops.

Two aircraft went down killing all aboard (12 each aircraft) within months of each other.

The squadron was made up of Reservists and regulars and were legendary beer drinkers.
 
A snappy salute to you "Navy", thanks for your service!:D

P.S. You have some great pics from your service and at this late date I regret not having some.

P.P.S. Here's to the beer drinking part! Salud.
 
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Sharps,

There's a reason autoloaders have been the general-issue US sidearms for 100 years, and silly slogans won't change that. As I pointed out, swords are still perfectly dangerous at close range, too- big deal. Revolvers do have their place, and on the battlefield ain't it.

Shepsan, that's a neat looking aircraft. I'd love to hear more about it.

John
 
JShirley, I see you hang in a current battle zone. Have you witnessed any incidents where an auto pistol has saved the day, when a sturdy revolver in its place would not have? I'd sure like to hear about a real incident as opposed to conjecture. Auto pistols may be the current trend and issue, but I fail to see, in real life shootings, where a suitable revolver has FAILED or would have been likely to fail the same task as the auto. All slogans and assertions aside, make your case.
 
I did make my case. Reload simplicity and speed alone would be reason enough. :)
 
I thought this thread was about best combat revolver, not revolver versus auto in military applications??? The term combat is not exclusive to the military.
 
I'd also give a reality check if the thread title was "What Lance for Panzer?" :rolleyes:

The M4 issue carbine is significantly more powerful than a 9x19mm, .38 , or .45, yet rapid reloads are practiced. If the enemy is so close a pistol is employed, how much more readily should a reload be executed? In Afghanistan, typically at least 1 magazine must be carried on a service member who is "inside the wire". Most commonly, the magazine will either be out of the weapon, or carried in the weapon, chamber empty.

A revolver could not be so carried. A disturbingly high percentage of attacks are conducted by individuals who are in the local national forces. This means that service members might be forced to react to a sudden threat from close range.

I'm really glad that Superman knows how to fly, and Michael Phelps can swim like a dolphin, but if I had to react to a sudden threat with an empty revolver because some ivory tower civilian who couldn't find his brain with two hands and a map thinks troops carrying a revolver would be jolly good fun, I wouldn't be a happy camper. If I survived, that is, which would be doubtful.

My issue M9 is very fast to get into action, on the other hand. I might actually save some lives with it.

Conjecture? CONJECTURE? No, I can't prove that a sturdy unloaded revolver wouldn't have saved the 9 Americans shot by an Afghan pilot in April of 2011, but it's not too damn likely, is it? "The handicap lies in the shooter"?!

No, some handicaps are imposed by others, like the empty chamber standard I mentioned. Troops don't need further handicaps imposed by amateur armchair quarterbacks.

John, from Helmand Province
 
The OP's question was: "What would be the best choice for a revolver?"


From Webster's:

com·bat
   noun
3. Military . active, armed fighting with enemy forces.
4. a fight, struggle, or controversy, as between two persons, teams, or ideas.


Is this book about military combat? No, it's about "How to defend: Your Family, Your Home, Yourself"

http://amzn.com/0896895254
 
OK, John, if we leave the politics out of it, and allow the combatant to have a loaded gun, what would the Afghan pilot have done after one or more .45 or .357 revolver rounds had connected with him? If we stand an equally potent .45 revolver against a 1911, or a .357 Magnum against a 9mm, we begin to see that if the situation can be resolved in the USUAL number of rounds in a mano y mano gunfight, either will do. If it a prolonged fight of pistols against rifles, there is a serious handicap, whether it be revolver OR auto pistol. I think this is just boiling down that you personally can't accept the thought of using a revolver in a hostile area, but many others CAN (and some already have). I carried a Model 19 S&W with full loads for many years as a cop, and I was NOT undergunned for any situation that I or my co-workers encountered, and we did have some armed conflicts. A 1911 or Beretta M9 wouldn't have helped us any better. Also, any GOOD soldier knows that if a fight is iminent, the rules be damned...load that weapon! You can always apologize later, if you survive. If you want to play mother may I, then you take your chances. I no longer leave my welfare to desk jockeys or the ill informed. Maybe we should start a new thread entitled, "What handgun is best for troops that have to carry an empty gun, and then quickly load it after they are shot at?"
 
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At the shootin matches I go to, the slowest, most inaccurate folks there are shooting wheel guns.

A lot of folks talk about being good with a revolver, but when the rubber hits the road a DA trigger is hard to make quick accurate hits with.

Watching them try to manage ammo is painful when you are holdin the timer.

A good CCW option? probably fine.

For war? never.
 
Have you ever witnessed a COMPETENT IDPA or combat shooter with speedloaders, or better yet, moon clips, load a revolver under stress? I'm sure there are some timed efforts of the above on youtube, if you don't get out much. Works in the dark, even with wet hands (been there, done that). I have also witnessed guys choke on jamming a mag in an M14, AR and AK. It's actually comical if it only happens in practice.
 
The answer is yes I SO for a lot of very competent IDPA shooters, and they are ALL slower with the revolver than they are in any of the auto divisions.

And IDPA is a relatively revolver friendly sport.

Just last weekend I ran the timer for a guy at a Steel challenge match, who is a very good shot, and watching him struggle with speedloaders and speed strips was painful.

Even at the State level, the Revolver MASTERS are shooting about 40 - 60% higher than the auto guys.

Its just how it is, and they arent bad shots.
 
Sharps, I like revolvers. Mine are in 2, 3, 4 and after I return, 5.5" varieties. I love the balance of a 4" N frame, and 3" K frame. I believe there are many situations where a revolver is a reasonable choice for the armed citizen, and I believe revolvers are typically the best choices for hunting handguns.

The reload issue isn't just a "reload" issue, it's a load issue. Service members frequently are placed in circumstances that require numerous loads and unloads of their weapon. Are there sturdy revolvers that might do just fine for the first six shots? Sure. What about after that?

The armed citizen, and usually even the police officer is in a different situation than deployed service members. Finding a service revolver that's great except for doing all the things a soldier, sailor, or Marine might need just demonstrates the point: wheelguns may be adequate for defense, but are poorly suited for combat.

John
 
SharpsDressedMan said:
Lets go back to the original question. If YOU had to employ a revolver in combat, or a combat area, which one would it be?
Click to expand...
I would answer this question by saying a fixed sighted, N frame, 4 inch moon clip equipped 45 ACP gun.

Like my 22-4.

Uses ammo that is currently in use by the .mil, moonclips that work well, and big enough to get your hands around.
 
For reasons well explained in post #246 by JShirley a revolver is not the best choice for a military service handgun, and so far as the United States is concerned this issue was resolved over a century ago when the services adopted the Colt model 1911, and thereafter never looked back, except for the use of substitute standard revolvers during times of crisis. Since that time further development of pistols has served to make they're position even stronger.

But military combat is usually much different then that encountered by law enforcement and ordinary-but-armed civilians.

In the latter instances I believe the revolver is still a viable choice, and sometimes a superior one. A high volume of fire may not be advantageous in circumstances where one can be, and usually is, held fully responsible for any damage or injury caused by every bullet they fire.

When one is making a decision concerning a personal weapon and/or tactics it would be wise to consider the substantial differences between the Rules of Engagement that govern civil and military situations.
 
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