AABEN
Member
I like the 28 & 586
Best combat revolver?
- Thread starter Walking Dead
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strykerfire
Member
yes it does unless your object is to kill. Which just one can do. And for combat the goal is to take enemys out of the fight 1 wounded 2 helping him get off the battlefield equals 3 enemys not fighting. Professionals know this. Administrator or not your wrong.
allaroundhunter
Member
Objective is to take them out of the fight. One bullet does not mean they are out of the fight, even if it hits its mark. They don't have to be dead, but they have to be hit well enough to wish they were. Soldiers are not trained to fire one round at each combatant and hope that it does the trick...
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strykerfire
Member
we were talking combat handguns. But on the it only takes one was to say sometimes you just have to shoot an attacker once to get your point across and yes sometimes you gotta empty the clip no arguement here. But in combat less people means less bullets coming at you. I understand that yes sometimes they take many but it is known that your buddies will help you in combat if you've sustained an injury. Terrorist or Navy Seal it is code. You live and die by it trusting in the man beside you.
David E
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No, object is to make him stop doing the thing I'm shooting him for in the first place.
If surgically placed. Difficult to do.
Goal is to incur enough damage/death on other side that they decide to go home instead of fight.
In theory, except that, at handgun range, the wounded soldier may not have received the memo that said: "once hit, stop fighting, wait for two buddies." Instead, he may keep trying to kill the one that shot him.
Everyone knows this!
LeontheProfessional
Member
I would definitely prefer to go with a 4 or 6" GP100. That being said the .357 is a much more potent round then the 45acp. If you dont believe me take a block of clay and shoot a similar round from each into it, ei, a factory pressured hollow point vs a factory pressured hollow point. You will be surprised at the difference.
Military use dictates FMJ. I have never, in 11 years of military service, heard a single soldier spout that "wound one, take out three" nonsense. Threats most likely to be currently countered with a handgun are wearing explosive devices or have decided to kill as many infidels as possible before NATO forces or their own compatriots kill them. Neither threat is likely to just give up because they take a single handgun round: they expect to die, and shooting them as many times as possible is the best way to limit the casualties they inflict. I personally expect a single unarmored threat to require at least 3 9mm rounds to quickly incapacitate, but if he's still on his feet, I'll keep pumping rounds in until he falls.
The original US auto pistol round was created in reaction to a very similar foe: a highly motivated Muslim force that the .38 revolvers of the day were not stopping quickly enough.
John
The original US auto pistol round was created in reaction to a very similar foe: a highly motivated Muslim force that the .38 revolvers of the day were not stopping quickly enough.
John
kingcheese
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It would depend on what kind of situation i was in, if it was a backup gun to an ar or such, id choose a top break revolver, i can reload with less chance of dumping good rounds(situation permitting) if i wanted pure power id choose a BFR nagant revolver isn't the strongest thing out, but it can be supressed, a smith andwesson govener hold six rounds and can hold 45acp on moon clips, that would be my choice
TreeDoc
Member
GP 100 4 inch, can also be used as effective hammer or pry tool.
rswartsell
Member
Wow guys!
Considering the op quote
Haven't we killed a whole lotta electrons arguing a point not in question? My opinion is if you aren't comparing the merits of revolvers that may get pressed into combat, you are off topic. At the very minimum you are beating a thoroughly dead horse.
Considering the op quote
Haven't we killed a whole lotta electrons arguing a point not in question? My opinion is if you aren't comparing the merits of revolvers that may get pressed into combat, you are off topic. At the very minimum you are beating a thoroughly dead horse.
45_auto
Member
Militarily, there is no difference between the best and worst combat handgun. Only thing they're for is to make soldiers feel good, so choose whatever makes you happiest. Handguns are so irrelevent on the modern battlefield that using 1836 Colt Patterson's as your combat revolver wouldn't make any difference over using the latest and greatest Wonder 9 40 Super Zapper Tupperware.
Walking Dead
Member
288 posts until we hit shear rediculousness.
rswartsell
Member
The more I think about rcmodel's post in favor of the Smith Chief's Special, the more I agree with him. A hideout that is in addition to what the military deemed appropriate can't be all bad if light and unobtrusive. Never saw it done while I wore the uniform, but maybe that's because I wasn't as savvy as rc back then.
I suggested a modernized top break in 45 ACP using full moon clips a few pages back because of the reload issue. Low pressure rounds because of the action strength, but that also means they don't stick in the chamber, and it might be possible to give it a shotgun/double rifle ejection system to kick the old clip and shells out. Would be really fast to unload/reload, as fast as a semi-auto. Problem would be wear/tear and strength most likely.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Thank you!!! Half this eight page thread has been off topic.
murdoc rose
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rc is dead on as usual
DC Plumber
Member
I hate to use a real life shooting for this story but here it goes.
On Sunday, August 5, 2012 a lone gunman walked into a religeous building of some sort, and started shooting. The local police chief was the first one on the site. He got shot 8 to 9 times with a 9mm and is going to live, just fine. One shot was in his neck. He waved off other officers to have them go help others.
The city was Oak Creek, WI. The chief is being called a hero, which he should be. One brave and tough man! Six people were killed. The gunman is dead, I think by his own weapon, not for sure.
Make all of the analogies you want, regarding caliber, shot placement, etc.......
On Sunday, August 5, 2012 a lone gunman walked into a religeous building of some sort, and started shooting. The local police chief was the first one on the site. He got shot 8 to 9 times with a 9mm and is going to live, just fine. One shot was in his neck. He waved off other officers to have them go help others.
The city was Oak Creek, WI. The chief is being called a hero, which he should be. One brave and tough man! Six people were killed. The gunman is dead, I think by his own weapon, not for sure.
Make all of the analogies you want, regarding caliber, shot placement, etc.......
Very confusing thread. I'm a fan of large revolvers for "combat", but a 586 would be my choice, with a short barrel.
I'd like to respectfully disagree with the idea that a revolver carried in combat would be carried empty. It would not. I know the Army carried guns unchambered, but that doesn't transfer to revolvers or carry policies in the future.
I read some thoughts on this a few years ago, maybe 25 or so. The report suggested a 4 shot revolver in .45 ACP might be a perfect choice. I guess that might be about the size of a k frame? It was an interesting idea. Most guys only need an emergency back- up weapon to some other gun. A gun as robust as a revolver wouldn't be too bad a choice. I would want something with a big bullet though.
I'd like to respectfully disagree with the idea that a revolver carried in combat would be carried empty. It would not. I know the Army carried guns unchambered, but that doesn't transfer to revolvers or carry policies in the future.
I read some thoughts on this a few years ago, maybe 25 or so. The report suggested a 4 shot revolver in .45 ACP might be a perfect choice. I guess that might be about the size of a k frame? It was an interesting idea. Most guys only need an emergency back- up weapon to some other gun. A gun as robust as a revolver wouldn't be too bad a choice. I would want something with a big bullet though.
frankmako
Member
s&w model 19 for me.
lefteyedom
Member
John,
The whole point of my suggestion that a light weight 44 mag 2" barrel revolver to be ideal was a bit of sarcasm at the whole idea of combat revolvers.
Revolvers time in the sun has past.
I carried a M15 Smith till they were replaced with M9. If you are doing police work on base or in garrison ether weapon will do. Other wise I would trade the weight of the pistol for more ammo for the carbine.
Even the best pistol cartridges are marginal man stoppers compared with carbines. The M1 carbine and M3 were proof of this 70 years ago.
If I must carry a pistol make it the most powerful, yet light unit possible.
The whole ammo supply chain question really does not effect the discussion, if so then the cartridge selection would be so narrow and to make the original question moot.
But with that restriction and the need for accurate shots out to 50 meter the revolver would have to be a 4" da/sa chambered for 45 acp and supplied with moon clips.
Sound like WW1? model 1917 SW If modern then S&W 325pd in 45 acp..
The whole point of my suggestion that a light weight 44 mag 2" barrel revolver to be ideal was a bit of sarcasm at the whole idea of combat revolvers.
Revolvers time in the sun has past.
I carried a M15 Smith till they were replaced with M9. If you are doing police work on base or in garrison ether weapon will do. Other wise I would trade the weight of the pistol for more ammo for the carbine.
Even the best pistol cartridges are marginal man stoppers compared with carbines. The M1 carbine and M3 were proof of this 70 years ago.
If I must carry a pistol make it the most powerful, yet light unit possible.
The whole ammo supply chain question really does not effect the discussion, if so then the cartridge selection would be so narrow and to make the original question moot.
But with that restriction and the need for accurate shots out to 50 meter the revolver would have to be a 4" da/sa chambered for 45 acp and supplied with moon clips.
Sound like WW1? model 1917 SW If modern then S&W 325pd in 45 acp..
Which "professionals" know this?
It is certainly not any sort of current US military strategy or doctrine to shoot-to-wound so that three are "taken off the battlefield" instead of one. It is doctrine to shoot to kill.
The only time I've heard this shoot-to-wound strategy is in urban myths about the development of the AR-15/M-16 and the .223 round in the 50s and 60s, which under the scrutiny of current-day research turns out to be bunk.
REMEMBER: in combat, a pistol is considered a secondary weapon at best. It is primarily a defensive tool, not an offensive one.
SFsc616171
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Dear folks,
After reading the entire thread, a/o 08/11/12, there has been NO mention of a Colt Commando! I think this is why: the Colt Commando served long and hard with OSS operatives. Obviously, not the sort of 'combat', that one usually thinks of, when talking about 'combat revolvers', no?
A combat revolver, in my definition, must be one of a caliber, that is not going to bash your hand after quite a few discharged rounds. This disqualifies magnum calibers, for me, as well as 9mm chamberings in a revolver.
It has been written somewhere in this thread: "The best combat revolver is the one that best fits your hand and shoots accurately and reliably for you, while being powerful enough to do the job reliably."
On this, I agree. During my periods of 'Security Augmentee', many years ago, I was issued a SW M15. This is the revolver I would choose, today. If I desired, I could use the plus-p FBI load, which has a good track record. My standard round would be no more than a standard pressure loaded commercial semiwadcutter round. Why? It loads well from either speedloaders or strips. It is not a hollowpoint, therefore, I don't have that 50-50 opportunity of the hollowpoint becoming a flattened wadcutter. Lastly, they work.
I have read this thread, as, "The Best Combat Revolver, for Me". Historically, I list:
1. SW Victory M&P Model
2. S&W Model 15
3. Colt Commando
Why the Victory model first? It saw more action in WW2, than the M15 did during the Vietnam War.
After reading the entire thread, a/o 08/11/12, there has been NO mention of a Colt Commando! I think this is why: the Colt Commando served long and hard with OSS operatives. Obviously, not the sort of 'combat', that one usually thinks of, when talking about 'combat revolvers', no?
A combat revolver, in my definition, must be one of a caliber, that is not going to bash your hand after quite a few discharged rounds. This disqualifies magnum calibers, for me, as well as 9mm chamberings in a revolver.
It has been written somewhere in this thread: "The best combat revolver is the one that best fits your hand and shoots accurately and reliably for you, while being powerful enough to do the job reliably."
On this, I agree. During my periods of 'Security Augmentee', many years ago, I was issued a SW M15. This is the revolver I would choose, today. If I desired, I could use the plus-p FBI load, which has a good track record. My standard round would be no more than a standard pressure loaded commercial semiwadcutter round. Why? It loads well from either speedloaders or strips. It is not a hollowpoint, therefore, I don't have that 50-50 opportunity of the hollowpoint becoming a flattened wadcutter. Lastly, they work.
I have read this thread, as, "The Best Combat Revolver, for Me". Historically, I list:
1. SW Victory M&P Model
2. S&W Model 15
3. Colt Commando
Why the Victory model first? It saw more action in WW2, than the M15 did during the Vietnam War.
SFsc616171
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Somebody said: "Lets go back to the original question. If YOU had to employ a revolver in combat, or a combat area, which one would it be?"
With all the nutjobs, hijabs, gangbangers, thugs, and other miscreants, I think Main Street America IS BECOMING a combat area! Ergo, the one that fits you, does the job as you define it, and is not necessarily of an oddball caliber.
With all the nutjobs, hijabs, gangbangers, thugs, and other miscreants, I think Main Street America IS BECOMING a combat area! Ergo, the one that fits you, does the job as you define it, and is not necessarily of an oddball caliber.
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