Best SHOTGUN EVER!

[zhyla]

What about the problem of shells squishing over time in the box magazine? If there were brass cased buckshot available I'd be more pro-Saiga for HD use but I want to be able to load up a magazine or two and leave them for a year or ten and still have everything work.

I realize plastic shotshells already have enough trouble with compression end to end when left in a tube for long periods. Can't be any better in a box magazine, can it?

 

[hso]

Best SHOTGUN EVER!

No

There is no one shotgun that is best for all uses you can put a shotgun to. Barrel length alone would make the statement extreme hyperbole. Toss in ergonomics for fast moving flyers and it becomes less believable.

I have a little Churchill that points like an extension of your will, a Model 12 that seems happy with whatever it is fed, AND an S12 that is a fire breathing monster. Each has strengths and weaknesses and it is unrealistic to think that any one of them would be the equal at the others in what they excel at.

Let's not let unbridled enthusiasm make us look foolish in front of folks that have run a lot of different shotguns in a lot of different applications.

 

[Fastcast]

Well said HSO!

Agreed, who wants only one shotgun to do it all. Jack of all trades and master of none so to speak. I have different shotguns for different things. SxS for upland game, semi-auto for waterfowl, pump gun for deer and HD.....Masterful at what they do best.

When I work on a car, I don't use a monkey wrench on a 5/8 bolt when the proper wrench or socket is available.

Anyway, the more the merrier!

 

[lobo9er]

browning A5 sweet 16

Sure, its a bit of a hassle to change barrels based on the situation or set the friction rings for loads,

so its has down sides just like evey other tool in the tool box. It also has limited capacity. It maybe your favorite but some would rather have a working shotgun you dont have to fool around with like the mossberg 930spx. (now someone can point out the short comings of the mossberg ) Everything is subjective.

 

[Hunterdad]

"THE BEST SHOTGUN EVER" is the one that goes boom when I tell it too and does it everytime.

 

[wlewisiii]

who can name a better, more versatile boom-boom stick?

The 1904 Parker DHE I saw the other day would be a good place to start...

 

[Youngster]

What about the problem of shells squishing over time in the box magazine? If there were brass cased buckshot available I'd be more pro-Saiga for HD use but I want to be able to load up a magazine or two and leave them for a year or ten and still have everything work.

I realize plastic shotshells already have enough trouble with compression end to end when left in a tube for long periods. Can't be any better in a box magazine, can it?

The Russians offer copper washed steel cased rounds that are intended for Saigas, if/when box mag shotguns become more popular then we'll probably see a lot more in the way of ammo designed around them.

 

[PT92]

What about the problem of shells squishing over time in the box magazine? If there were brass cased buckshot available I'd be more pro-Saiga for HD use but I want to be able to load up a magazine or two and leave them for a year or ten and still have everything work.

I realize plastic shotshells already have enough trouble with compression end to end when left in a tube for long periods. Can't be any better in a box magazine, can it?

Seems simple to me (either tube or box mag):

periodically cycle the shells. It's forever worked for me.

-Cheers

 

[Ole Humpback]

If there were brass cased buckshot available I'd be more pro-Saiga for HD use but I want to be able to load up a magazine or two and leave them for a year or ten and still have everything work.

I think huble458 on this forum can help you out. Hes made some monster 12ga all brass rounds that scream unreal due to how big & fast hes got them going. See the thread 12GA Rifle from Hell for more info.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The whole weight and balence of shotguns seems alittle overrated in my opinion. Last night I tried swinging my 1100 with and and without the extension both times loaded and didn't notice me being slower with my swing and over swinging/underswinging. Unless you have tons of crap added to the muzzle, a simple extension shouldn't bother you one bit.

 

[Dave McCracken]

527, try firing the gun with and without, say, 50 times each.

 

[Youngster]

The whole weight and balence of shotguns seems alittle overrated in my opinion. Last night I tried swinging my 1100 with and and without the extension both times loaded and didn't notice me being slower with my swing and over swinging/underswinging. Unless you have tons of crap added to the muzzle, a simple extension shouldn't bother you one bit.

Granted, but you can't make an 1100 handle much worse?

Seriously, any fairly conventional configuration shotgun is going to handle decently unless its got a lot of stuff attached to it, it's when you get into form factors not developed around shotgun use is where you are going to be handling challenged from the start.

 

[Girodin]

I love my saiga 12. I'm not sure it is the best shotgun ever. It is very good for certain things.

what other shotgun can easily carry a 20-30 round drum or a stick mag? dollar for dollar... best shotgun available!

I have a 20 round drum and it is a novelty for the most part. Too big and too heavy for the vast majority of things one might do with a shotgun. Furthermore, for many tasks holding more rounds is not a per se benefit.

You don't NEED at 20 round drum for any civilian purposes or even Police purposes.

Maximum advantage on certain three gun stages? I hate when people presume to tell me what gun things I do or don't need.

I think that some of the conversions tend to result in finnicky guns because the guns are so heavily modified that you're essentially ending up with a completely different gun.

Bingo, if one is going to build a race gun with mid barrel brake then one better know how to tune the gas system or they will have issues.

If you are using aftermarket mags, lots of them take some tuning to get running 100%

If you are running a magwell then again you need to tune your mags to your gun and there can be issues if its not done right.

I've never known a saiga not to run out of the box with slugs or buckshot. Lighter loads do appear to be an issue for a minority of guns. Those can typically be made to run without that much trouble.

In sum, I love my saiga. It is real good at somethings, not so much at others. Far from the best shotgun ever made or a true do it all gun IMHO. I think as a fighting gun or 3 gun gun it can be pretty dang good when set up right.

I will note the MKA 1919 is poised to steal a lot of the S12s thunder IMHO.

 

[JohnBT]

"Granted, but you can't make an 1100 handle much worse?"

Compared to what? The worst must be a fence post or a Saiga. 1100s are great handling guns, although not as good as a fine double.

What is it Bruce Buck says on Shotgun Report, the bad guns balance and swing like a pig on a snow shovel.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

527, try firing the gun with and without, say, 50 times each.

What would that prove exactly? I shoot trap with the extension on with a longer barrel. I never even noticed big difference when I switched from an 870 without and extension to my 1100 with an extension.

Maximum advantage on certain three gun stages? I hate when people presume to tell me what gun things I do or don't need.

How come I always see stick magazines and never drum magazines in the championships? You really don't need one but that doesn't mean you can't have one. Do you need a Ferrari when a Civic will get you to work? Nope but it would be nice to have one.

 

[PT92]

The more I read this thread, the more I realize that the OP Subject is a bit sophomoric in general IMHO (no disrespect intended). The best anything ever is just too subjective to answer (maybe the OP was a simple play on words and I missed it or maybe I'm just getting older....). Yet the thread does contain some very good information so well worth the read. I love my Saiga and think it might very well be the 'best' solution for tactical situations but I much prefer my Remington for trap.

-Cheers

 

[Girodin]

Geez, it's a good thing I saw this thread because I was thinking about purchasing a Mossberg 930 SPX tactical... I wouldn't want to be stuck with an inferior shotgun.

Come to think of it, I think I'll go ahead and buy that inferior shotgun after all.

I have both and prefer my saiga. Of course I have a fair ammount of money into my saiga to have it set up the way I like, probably 3x if I count mags and all, as the 930 SPX cost me.

I like the 930 too though. But if I could only keep one, the mossberg would be finding a new home and I wouldn't think twice about it.

If one wants something to pull out of the box and not have to make any changes the 930 would be my recommendation.

 

[Fastcast]

I couldn't even imagine hunting upland birds or waterfowl with something like that!.....I bet there would be a lot of warning shots!

Best shotgun ever?.....NOT for how I use a shotgun......For zombie apocalypse or war games inside the home, maybe.

 

[Dimis]

Huh? What does that mean? Will's reputation in the tactical weapons business is unparalleled--He is on record as stating that he believes the Saiga-12 is the best choice for the 'tactical realm' (just as Gabe Suarez is as well). Not sure what your issue is with him but your entitled to your opinion--I would just preface my statement with such.

My experience is that he is a hot head that rarely thinks things through
He does know his stuff to a certain degree but on the scale of 1-10 of knowledge I give him a 4
on his attitude and willingness to help others I give him a -20
not the type I tend to trust or listen to YMMV

 

[PT92]

My experience is that he is a hot head that rarely thinks things through

Agreed in that he has what most people who don't know him might incorrectly perceive to be a 'short fuse' (though the show intentially exagerates this exponentially). He's a Marine if you know what I mean...

He does know his stuff to a certain degree but on the scale of 1-10 of knowledge I give him a 4

Couldn't disagree more. His knowledge of the business is unparralled, in particular, relating to assault weapons both contemporary and historical

on his attitude and willingness to help others I give him a -20
not the type I tend to trust or listen to YMMV

If you mean up front in the store, that's not his job as far as greeting the customer and all the sales stuff--he has hired others to perform those functions--Will is the brains behind the business so is rarely seen in the front but almost always in his office, the shop or the field (here again, of course, the show portrays this differently for the sake of drama and shows him doing Steph's, Vince's or Kris' job up front)

Nevertheless, that's just my two cents but I would highly recommend Will and RJ any-day. Sorry to hear your experience was negative.

-Cheers

 

[MCgunner]

I love my saiga 12. I'm not sure it is the best shotgun ever. It is very good for certain things.

Undoubtedly, but those are things I don't really care about. I do know it's not the "best all around" shotgun out there as I bird hunt, mainly, and can think of few WORSE shotguns for wing shooting. I guess that new Kel Tec thing might rank.

Either the Kel Tec or Saiga would perhaps be a good walk in the woods gun in Alaska loaded with slugs, but I don't know how heavy the things are loaded with all that ammo. An ordinary slug gun is fine for bruin defense. I don't think added firepower is really necessary. You won't have time to use it on a charging bruin.

A Saiga with slugs might make for a good gun to wipe out the hog population in an area. A fast shooting, hard hitting auto is often preferred for this. Many ARs are beefed up with .50 Beowulf or other more appropriate for hog conversions to do this. Ranges aren't long when night hunting hogs over bait. If that's your thing, a Saiga loaded with slugs and with night vision could be just the ticket.

BUT, the OP says "best all around". Nope, not even in the ball park. A bird gun or clays gun needs to fit, needs proper balance, and needs to come TO the eye and point naturally (part of the fit thing). It took me some time to appreciate this fact, but it is truly fact and I'm a better wing shooter now since learning about proper fit and balance some years ago. I now spend time upon a new gun purchase, trying to shim the stock to perfection. The only shotgun I've never had to do this to is my Winchester 1400. It fit me like a glove right out of the box. This is rare in off the rack shotguns. It's one reason I like that gun.

 

[allaroundhunter]

"Best shotgun ever"...........not in my book

You can say all day how you have a 20 round drum, but when I hunt, typically the limit is 2 rounds in the tube and 1 in the chamber. And for home defense, I will take quality over quantity. Therefore, the Saiga does not have any advantage.

For accuracy and handling in said hunting conditions....the Saiga loses

Even for home defense, the safety is in a far less than optimal place and its reliability is often questioned..... (Remington 870 gets my nod)

I can't speak for 3-gun as I have never participated in one, but I look forward to when I do. However, others have already pointed out where the Saiga falls short.

It's safe to say that I would only grab a Saiga for anything if it was one of my last options

 

[lobo9er]

MCGUNNER your post is all opinion just like th OP, and just like most of the posts in this thread. Just my opinion

 

[Bobson]

Deleted.

 

[MCgunner]

Even for home defense, the safety is in a far less than optimal place and its reliability is often questioned..... (Remington 870 gets my nod)

Here's another opinion.....I shoot lefty and, yeah, the safety is way weird on a Saiga. I prefer my Mossberg's tang safety, actually, but a cross bolt that can be reversed somehow ( found a lefty safety for my Winchester ) is okay. The BPS is TOTALLY ambidextrous. Love those things, though I don't have one, yet. But, yeah, I totally agree on the stupid location and function of the Saiga or AK safety. It's okay for military, but for civilian use? Nah, especially not for a lefty shooter.

It is FACT, however, that you'll shoot better if your gun properly balances and fits.