BHP single stack

[oldfool]

lest I further distract a different (good) thread here
just a question from an old wheelgunner "sufferin' from sometimers"

did Browning ever actually do a single stack version of the BHP ?

dunno why I thunk so, but apparently they did not, even if JMB's original notion may have been single stack

I own one of the usual full size "92 style" double stack hi-cap nines, nice enough handgun, but never one of my favorites, got girly little hands that prefer skinnier single stacks, but best like full size all steel pistols in 9 or larger

ignore that thumbs down... that was SUPPOSED to be question mark icon !
cannot seem to edit that out, though
sorry about that
mebbe a mod would do so for me

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

You could always get a 9mm 1911, closest to a HP single stack you can get.

 

[oldfool]

thunk about it more than once
but keep running into too many k-frame "bargains"... and all those other temptations, long and short, waiting in line on the wish list

 

[ugaarguy]

Oldfool, the doublestack BHP is still mighty thin. It feels like a single stack to me after picking up a fat boy like the 92FS.

 

[Drail]

Agreed. The BHP is the skinniest double stack I have ever gripped. I wish they could have made one in single stack .45 ACP. The BHP is a great design.

 

[MICHAEL T]

BHP thin 1911 in 9mm better

 

[9mmepiphany]

if it's just the Browning name you are interested in, Browning did market a single stack 9mm...the BDA (Browning Double Action). it was a badge engineered Sig 220.

a closer option to the BHP in a single stack 9mm, than the 9mm 1911, would be the Star BM

 

[loadedround]

The BHP always was a double stack magazine pistol as conceived by Mr. Browning in 1935. It's name "Hipower" came from it's magazine capacity and not it's cartridge power.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Give a Colt Commander a try, lightweight or steel. Either one is a package that would feel about as nice as a single stack BHP.

 

[Zundfolge]

I wonder if one could make super thin grips for a BHP out of some thin, flashing type metal covered with grip tape (this should work for pretty much any double stack steel pistol ... I originally had this idea for a Para Ordnance double stack 1911)

 

[1911Tuner]

The BHP always was a double stack magazine pistol as conceived by Mr. Browning in 1935

Since Mr. Browning died in 1926, that's not possible. He had very little to do with the final design.

 

[1911Tuner]

An exerpt that explains why the P-35/Hi-Power was/is a double stack 9mm caliber pistol.

As with the 1911, Browning and FN were working to give the French army a pistol built to their specifications and requirements. The P-35 doesn't have a grip safety because the French military didn't ask for one, and they may have specifically asked that it not be included. If they had specified a grip safety, the High Power would be wearing one today.
*********************

The Hi-Power was designed in response to a French military requirement for a new service pistol, the Grand Rendement (French for "High Yield"), or alternatively Grande Puissance (literally "high power"). The French military's requirements were that the arm should be compact, have a capacity of at least 10 rounds, a magazine disconnect device, an external hammer, a positive safety, be robust and simple to disassemble and re-assemble, and be capable of killing a man at 50 meters; this last criterion was seen to demand a caliber of 9 mm or larger, a bullet mass of around 8 grams, and a muzzle velocity of 350 m/s. It was to accomplish all of this at a weight not exceeding 1 kg (2.2 lb).

 

[HorseSoldier]

Dieudionne Saive worked with Browning on the P-35, and he is supposedly the designer of the double stack magazine. Browning may have originally conceived of the pistol as a single stack, but the high cap mag was a part of all the prototypes completed before Browning's death (none of which looked much like the finalized pistol which Saive finished -- as 1911Tuner noted, Browning was dead nearly a decade, and many design revisions, before the P-35 went into production). Browning's name is only associated with the pistol at all because it did use his lockwork (hence "Brownings Patent Depose" on the slides) and because it was good marketing.

 

[Oldnoob]

For single stack pistol (though not full steel), there was Sig 220 early production in 9mm (or Browning BDA 9mm). Also in compact size Beretta 92M, and Sig 225 are both single stack pistol.

 

[loadedround]

Read any biography on John Browning, and he is credited with the design of the BHP pistol(aka P-35) regardless of when he had died. This pistol was not adapted for first use until 1935, hence the model designation P35. Let's not split hairs here.

 

[1911Tuner]

Let's not split hairs here.

Oh, why not?

I'm as big a fan of John Browning as there is...but he didn't even design the 1911 by himself. There was a team of Colt's top engineers who were in on the project, along with much input from the Army Ordnance Board. The pistol was essentially designed by a committee.

Browning's design credits are in the short recoil/tilt barrel operation, along with the lockwork...but he died before the gun was anywhere near completion. Seen any pictures of the early P35 prototypes? Most of the credit for the High Power that we know and love goes to Saive and his team of engineers at FN.

Here's a link to a pretty good article on the development of the High Power, and Browning's contribution to it.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_50/ai_112128013/

And here is the Grand Rendement, as designed by John Browning.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?p=2305465

 

[oldfool]

rightly said 1911

but I always did admire FN for their respect and appreciation of the man (JMB)
and their willingness to honor his name has always transcended "sales & marketing" labeling
the legacy of an extraordinary relationship between designer and manufacturer, that has lasted for many decades after the fact
(poor decision making by Colt playing no small part in all of that)

 

[bannockburn]

1911Tuner

There is also an excellent article in the February 2010 issue of Small Arms Review magazine. It is titled "Browning H.P. Ancestors", and was written by Jean Huon. Very informative, especially relating to the French program of 1921, to develop a new pistol for the Army.

 

[loadedround]

OK, I hope you guys are happy now since you have my beloved BHP sitting in the corner crying it's eyes out, having found out that it is fatherless. I'm just going to have to take it out to the range this afternoon and let it work it's problems out. You're all a bunch of bullies picking on my little BHP like that. Please send ammo to make it feel better.

 

[1911Tuner]

Aw...It'll be ai'ght once ya get a few rounds downrange.

Anybody else notice the Grand Rendement's uncanny resemblance to the Grendel P30?

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/grendel-p-30-30rd-22-mag-pistol-20590/

 

[Jim Watson]

Not to take anything away from D. Saive's putting the final form on the BHP, but one of his accomplishments was plowing 1911 features into the FN gun as the Colt-Browning patents ran out. As M. Ayoob says, "...did away with the breech bolt design in favor a system that would allow a similar takedown to John Browning's already-proven 1911 .45. The older 9mm's manual safety, an awkward thing at the grip tang area, was replaced with one that worked similar to that of the Colt pistol." He also incorporated a barrel bushing, just like the 1911's in 1930 but permanently driven into place by 1931. Looking at a cross sectional drawing, I wonder if he did not also adapt the 1911's firing pin retainer when it became available.

 

[1911Tuner]

Yep, Jim. People have been robbin' poor ol' John Mose ever since he died.

I have trouble rememberin' how to spell that first name myself. I think it's Duidonne...but don't hold me to that.

 

[Jim Watson]

Dieudonne.