Shadow Man
Member
Wait Wishin, so you are saying that there shouldn't be any licensing whatsoever?
Biggest "surprise" at your CCW class
- Thread starter Gouranga
- Start date
- Status
Wait Wishin, so you are saying that there shouldn't be any licensing whatsoever?
45Frank
Member
I have been told that if you pull your gun you better shoot the reason you pulled it. Not that someone better die.
Quote:
During the class he made this exact statement: "if you pull your gun somebody better die". I was stunned. Didn't agree with that statement and still don't.
His logic was:
1. It is only legal to pull your CCW and point it at another if you are in fear for your life.
2. If you are truly in fear for your life you have absolutely no other choice than to eliminate the threat.
3. You eliminate the threat by shooting it until your attacker stops what he/she is doing that is the source of the threat.
4. Stopping the threat will in most cases mean the threat is dead.
The lawyer was deadly ernest. The topic was discussed for almost 1/2 hour and he would not back down. If you pull your gun in OK someone better die.
Quote:
During the class he made this exact statement: "if you pull your gun somebody better die". I was stunned. Didn't agree with that statement and still don't.
His logic was:
1. It is only legal to pull your CCW and point it at another if you are in fear for your life.
2. If you are truly in fear for your life you have absolutely no other choice than to eliminate the threat.
3. You eliminate the threat by shooting it until your attacker stops what he/she is doing that is the source of the threat.
4. Stopping the threat will in most cases mean the threat is dead.
The lawyer was deadly ernest. The topic was discussed for almost 1/2 hour and he would not back down. If you pull your gun in OK someone better die.
Just the opposite. For someone to say that it's OK to require a license to drive, fly a plane, run a business, get married, etc.,etc.,etc., and then balk because of a licensing requirement for gun carry makes no logical sense and contradicts reason.
The whole idea is to "qualify" these actions. I don't think any of us want our 10 year old child carrying a concealed weapon or driving a car; nor do we want a mentally retarded individual doing these things.
Jonah71
Member
To be honest, I took the class and got my CCW just to get legal and to avoid having a firearms charge on my record simply for exercising what I believe to be my right according to the Constitution. So I paid the local/state/federal (hard to tell the difference these days) government their dues and jumped through the proper hoops. Now I can LEGALLY attempt to protect myself. But I guess the real point is......they all got their $$$! And I think that's what it's all about in the first place.
leadcounsel
member
My biggest surprise is people paying to take the class and then never getting their permit 
What's the point of the time and expense??
I've taken two - the Colorado one back in 2004 where I arranged for a few friends to attend to bring the per person cost down. One friend never intended nor did he get his permit. The second one I took was the multi-state course. I brought my non-paying girlfriend and the instructor said that was fine. She was only going to observe because she was interested but he took us aside and told her she could take the course for free if she wanted (he was trying to entice more women into the hobby/sport/concealed carry and I guess he figured he'd give her a freebee... kinda cool I thought). Anyway, she took and passed all the requirements AND STILL NEVER GOT HER PERMIT... oh well. She and I are friends still, but I just never understood that.
What's the point of the time and expense??I've taken two - the Colorado one back in 2004 where I arranged for a few friends to attend to bring the per person cost down. One friend never intended nor did he get his permit. The second one I took was the multi-state course. I brought my non-paying girlfriend and the instructor said that was fine. She was only going to observe because she was interested but he took us aside and told her she could take the course for free if she wanted (he was trying to entice more women into the hobby/sport/concealed carry and I guess he figured he'd give her a freebee... kinda cool I thought). Anyway, she took and passed all the requirements AND STILL NEVER GOT HER PERMIT
... oh well. She and I are friends still, but I just never understood that.Steve 48
Member
My biggest surprise was the number of poor shotsw that are allowede to carry!! While mine was a ragged hole, most others looked like a shotgun pattern.
leadcounsel
member
Werewolf stated that his instructor said:
I don't find fault in that statement if the instructor meant that the shooter MUST have the mindset to understand that by drawing a gun to resolve a problem (lethal threat), that the problem (lethal threat) is REAL and IMMINENT and you don't have viable alternatives.
Think who this class is geared for: Typical average people, the lowest common demoninator. People who may think they are suddenly tough or invincible because they have a gun. Or people who are timid and afraid to use it and think that by showing the gun the perpitrator will flee. He is absolutely correct in stating that if you pull your gun, you better be emotionally ready to take the life of (the perceived) aggressor/attacker. Not someone that is calling you names. Not someone that you are upset with because of a petty fight. A REAL BONA-FIDE lethal threat which demands lethal force.
I think he's right on the money with his statement
I don't find fault in that statement if the instructor meant that the shooter MUST have the mindset to understand that by drawing a gun to resolve a problem (lethal threat), that the problem (lethal threat) is REAL and IMMINENT and you don't have viable alternatives.
Think who this class is geared for: Typical average people, the lowest common demoninator. People who may think they are suddenly tough or invincible because they have a gun. Or people who are timid and afraid to use it and think that by showing the gun the perpitrator will flee. He is absolutely correct in stating that if you pull your gun, you better be emotionally ready to take the life of (the perceived) aggressor/attacker. Not someone that is calling you names. Not someone that you are upset with because of a petty fight. A REAL BONA-FIDE lethal threat which demands lethal force.
I think he's right on the money with his statement
my biggest surprise here in MA was that fact that if you use the weapon in a situation you are told to unload on the perp because if you wound him he may sue you!!!
I was quite surprised also at how well most of the people in my class shot although we were using the simulator with real guns fitted with an adapter for the simulator and hooked up to C02 to make the action cycle even on the m4.
Also the character of the people was good, I think I was the oldest in the class at 41. My wife even took the class with me.
I would have preferred to go to the range but in this state if you have no LTC (license to carry) you can't own a hand gun and in Boston you have to shoot to qualify so it's sort of a catch 22 if you live in the city, you can't practice to qualify unless you know someone with a gun and you can't purchase a handgun unless you have an LTC...
all in all the place I went to and the person teaching was spot on. It was informative and enlightening.
this is the place:
www.massfirearmsschool.com
I was quite surprised also at how well most of the people in my class shot although we were using the simulator with real guns fitted with an adapter for the simulator and hooked up to C02 to make the action cycle even on the m4.
Also the character of the people was good, I think I was the oldest in the class at 41. My wife even took the class with me.
I would have preferred to go to the range but in this state if you have no LTC (license to carry) you can't own a hand gun and in Boston you have to shoot to qualify so it's sort of a catch 22 if you live in the city, you can't practice to qualify unless you know someone with a gun and you can't purchase a handgun unless you have an LTC...
all in all the place I went to and the person teaching was spot on. It was informative and enlightening.
this is the place:
www.massfirearmsschool.com
Bhamrichard
Member
No class requirements in Alabama. But I did take a "Basic Handgun Safety Class" that the county sheriff's department holds.
Worst thing I saw, one of the deputy's was showing how to unload a glock. BOOM.. there's a new chunk of concrete missing from the floor.
Worst thing I saw, one of the deputy's was showing how to unload a glock. BOOM.. there's a new chunk of concrete missing from the floor.
JW2
Member
Mine would be taking and passing the class, hand delivering my certificate, money order, app and fingerprints and waiting 4 months only to call and find out that they lost everything and I have to start all over again and re-pay.
Lou McGopher
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 507
What do gangbangers dress like?
I would very much like to acquire this potentially useful information.
After seeing how the range portion was handled, I'm surprised nobody got shot!
They placed a dozen or so people almost shoulder to shoulder, and had them start firing away at paper targets that everyone else has already been shooting at. Many of the students were very unfamiliar with their guns. I saw a few instances of people getting swept by others trying to clear jams, or loading, or figuring out how to turn off the safety. There were no benches/tables. There were no partitions. I was getting hit by the brass from the person to my left. I was getting hit by the brass from the person 3 down on my left. There was no one-on-one instruction of any type.
Mine was alot of fun....
It was taught by a local P.D Det. He made it pretty entertaining. He also had some of the Patrol cops come in and talk.
My biggest suprise was the shooting part. We had about 30 in my class. I knew a couple of them. I guess I was mostly shocked that a person could acually miss a Sil. target , at 3 Yd's. Belive me, the TX. course of fire is.... well,..........basic. Some of the folks had to shoot a second time.
I was helping a 73 year old lady beside me load her mags. She had Arthritis and was having heck. I'd load mine, holster, and load hers. she shot a 242 out of 250. I was proud of her...
It was taught by a local P.D Det. He made it pretty entertaining. He also had some of the Patrol cops come in and talk.
My biggest suprise was the shooting part. We had about 30 in my class. I knew a couple of them. I guess I was mostly shocked that a person could acually miss a Sil. target , at 3 Yd's. Belive me, the TX. course of fire is.... well,..........basic. Some of the folks had to shoot a second time.
I was helping a 73 year old lady beside me load her mags. She had Arthritis and was having heck. I'd load mine, holster, and load hers. she shot a 242 out of 250.
I was proud of her...Well I find out in a couple of weeks if I find anything surprising as I take my CHL class then but after I talked this thread over with my brother last night who took his CHL class several years ago he related something about his to me that went like this.
An older man showed up in class carrying a loaded revolver in his hand.
That was strike one.
He dosed off in class.
That was strike two.
Then as soon as everyone was lined up at the range without any instructions or permission started firing at the target scaring the hell out of everyone.
He was excused and according to my brother very upset that he could not get his money back.
Hopefully nothing like that will ruin my experience.
An older man showed up in class carrying a loaded revolver in his hand.
That was strike one.
He dosed off in class.
That was strike two.
Then as soon as everyone was lined up at the range without any instructions or permission started firing at the target scaring the hell out of everyone.
He was excused and according to my brother very upset that he could not get his money back.
Hopefully nothing like that will ruin my experience.
308win
Member
The instructor ran a variation of the Tuller Drill where he gave the go signal and one of the students ran as far as he could run until the second student could draw and get two shots COM in a silhouette at 10 feet. The student tasked with running got a lot farther than 21 feet and the student doing the shooting was one of the more proficient students in the class and she required only two shots.
ENCPirate
Member
Mine was a lot of fun too. The instructor ended up pulling out some of his machine gun's and a few other rare guns from his collection to pass around and let us check out in the classroom. No range time with them though .
A few people had a tough time with accuracy. One guy who had never shot before managed to get the loaner glock jammed every time but shot almost perfect. The only thing that had me worried was the guy that took 2 tries to pass the written test and could barley keep his rounds on target. That one had me a little worried.
. A few people had a tough time with accuracy. One guy who had never shot before managed to get the loaner glock jammed every time but shot almost perfect. The only thing that had me worried was the guy that took 2 tries to pass the written test and could barley keep his rounds on target. That one had me a little worried.
Shadow Man
Member
Okay, so in essence, no double standard? If you (universal "you") think it is critical that licensing be required for driving a vehicle, flying a plane, getting married, etc., then, according to your logic it is just as reasonable to have to be licensed to carry a weapon?
If that is the case, then I can agree with that. To get a DL or a PL (Pilots License) or even a business license you have to prove that you are proficient at driving a car, flying a plane or running a business. That same standard should be applied to CCL then; shall-issue in all states, but a proficency test must be passed in order to be licensed. I don't think that is so unreasonable, and I don't see it as an infringement upon the Second Amendment.
kymarkh
Member
I was surprised to find that I was the only one in my class with a longslide Glock
No surprises really. A good cross-section of the population was represented.
Overall I'd say it was a good experience.
No surprises really. A good cross-section of the population was represented.
Overall I'd say it was a good experience.
cerberus65
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 296
I was surprised at how scary some of the people in my class were. One fellow had a vintage S&W revolver in .32 Long. His first shot at 3 yards was over the shoulder of the silhouette. I guess at least it was still on the paper. One fellow seemed to have stored his Taurus revolver in a barrel of oil between the time he purchased it the night before and the morning of our class. He told me at one point that he was having a hard time holding on to the gun while he was firing it because of all the oil. He claimed over-oiling was a military thing. Two folks couldn't seem to keep their fingers off the trigger no matter how much the instructor yelled at them. And then there was the lady who swept us all. All that really kinda surprised me because I had been practicing weekly at the same range and hadn't run into hardly any unsafe behavior.
One fellow seemed to have stored his Taurus revolver in a barrel of oil between the time he purchased it the night before and the morning of our class. He told me at one point that he was having a hard time holding on to the gun while he was firing it because of all the oil. He claimed over-oiling was a military thing. Two folks couldn't seem to keep their fingers off the trigger no matter how much the instructor yelled at them. And then there was the lady who swept us all. All that really kinda surprised me because I had been practicing weekly at the same range and hadn't run into hardly any unsafe behavior.Nate1778
Member
The amount of people that did not know which end the bullet came out of, seriously.
Then we had an office commando that wanted to qualify with 3 guns....
Then we had an office commando that wanted to qualify with 3 guns....
308win
Member
Another practice I found odd was that we weren't allowed to use our personal weapons we had to use the weapons supplied by the range. OTOH, I did get to shoot several different brands of pistols with which I had no previous experience.
The biggest surprise to me was the table of weapons they had, all of which were confiscated from offenders in my county by the sheriff's department. Mind you I live in North West Iowa, they had a full-auto MP-40 from WWII, a sawed-off pump shotgun, many types of various lengthed knives, a katana sword, a very nice pair of Colt Single Action Armys, a mini-14 with the barrel sawed off to where it was flush with the forend (although it had no front sight anymore). I know there were other crazy guns but I can't think of any offhand. I was just in awe looking at all of those weapons.
My biggest surprise was the trainer told us that it could take 4-6 weeks to get the ccw card after we mailed in our package with the check and finger prints. I mailed mine the Saturday I took the course and got my card the following Friday.
Another surprise was a year later I needed to be fingerprinted for some volunteer work at a school so I contacted the Arizona DPS to get copies of my fingerprints and was told once the ccw permit is issued the fingerprints were destroyed.
Another surprise was a year later I needed to be fingerprinted for some volunteer work at a school so I contacted the Arizona DPS to get copies of my fingerprints and was told once the ccw permit is issued the fingerprints were destroyed.
MinnMooney
Member
Surprise! I thought it would be a comprehensive class that challenged us. Instead, it turned out to be a beginners class in remedial laws pertaining to deadly force responsibilities and shooting 101. The firearms instructor taught class to the level of the least experienced applicant. "What's wrong with that?", you ask. Well, for one thing, 15 out of the 17 people in our class were fairly long-time shooters and had quite a bit of experiance using handguns. One had only shot for a very short time and not many round, at that. His wife, however, was in another class of experiance altogether! ZERO ! 
When we were asked what caliber/brand/action we had had brought for class, he had to look in the case to see and his wife couldn't get her case opened to look. I commend those two for buying weapons and taking the carry permit class but they should have been screened at application time and given a beginers class.
The range time should have been the high-light of the day but was, instead, boring. They kept trying to get her qualified but finally had to give up and go back to the last part of our classroom items before we ran out of day. We kept hearing her shooting at the range and she finally came back to class with a 71% "qualifing target" - just barely. In comparison, I shot a 97 and my son shot 98 or 99% 
. Most of the other "students" shot in the 90's.
When we were asked what caliber/brand/action we had had brought for class, he had to look in the case to see and his wife couldn't get her case opened to look.
I commend those two for buying weapons and taking the carry permit class but they should have been screened at application time and given a beginers class.The range time should have been the high-light of the day but was, instead, boring.
They kept trying to get her qualified but finally had to give up and go back to the last part of our classroom items before we ran out of day. We kept hearing her shooting at the range and she finally came back to class with a 71% "qualifing target" - just barely. In comparison, I shot a 97 and my son shot 98 or 99% . Most of the other "students" shot in the 90's.- Status
Similar threads
