Black powder novice - what do I have?

[paradox998]

Hello:

I have never had the opportunity to shoot black powder and so know nothing about the sport. A friend has two unfired black powder 44 cal pistols, new and in the box. Both say that they are one of 5000 and made by FLLIPIETTA in Italy. Below are some pictures. I would appreciate any estimates on their value and quality. Thanks in advance.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

An excellent source of information is actual sales on gunbroker.com.
actual sales, where both parties were happy tells the story.

I've seen the first sell at $200-$250 several times. Occasionally more.

The Second, I've seen go for under $200 a few, but usually a bit over.

 

[unknwn]

Anytime someone would tell you that either of those has a value of a couple hundred dollars or there-abouts, just turn your your back and keep on looking for advice.
If those guns were ASMs or some such they would still be valued at twice that or more.
Get a magnet and check the frame (area between the hammer & the cylinder) to see if they are magnetic. If not, than you have brass frames under that nickle plating (not so good for everyday shooters but...).
Find someone who has a guns valuation book (local gun shop) to get a base line and do some experimentation with search terms on the several biggest gun auction sites to find some "sold-for" for-instances (don't forget to use the "advanced search" offered by the sight and include "completed" auctions for as far back in time as possible -or- needed).
Being as they are Piettas, and look to be "never fired" or real close to that, I'd bet that a starting price would need to be upwards of $350 or -better-.
Sure, any of us would like to score these for $200 a piece, but I'm certain that they cost the original purchaser (and undoubtably the retailer) much more than that.

 

[pohill]

Here's two examples of the top one - one for sale, one sold:
http://fsguns.com/used/?action=detail&indx=10888


This one is missing the "cylinder/base pin."
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11090...58-remington-pietta-1-of-5000-special-edition

I've seen a few for sale in the $250 range.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

the stainless buffalo model New in box is bluebooked at $573.00
blue book on the brass frame model with adjustable rear sight and 12" barrel 387.00
that is MSR so if you take it to a dealer or pawn broker expect them to offer you around $150.00 to $200.00 less than blue book.
both are of the highest quality Pietta offered and very good shooters especially the texas model with the 12" barrel and adjustable sights makes it very accurate.
keep them cleaned and keep the box the original box makes any firearm worth more.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Anytime someone would tell you that either of those has a value of a couple hundred dollars or there-abouts, just turn your your back and keep on looking for advice.
If those guns were ASMs or some such they would still be valued at twice that or more.
Get a magnet and check the frame (area between the hammer & the cylinder) to see if they are magnetic. If not, than you have brass frames under that nickle plating (not so good for everyday shooters but...).
Find someone who has a guns valuation book (local gun shop) to get a base line and do some experimentation with search terms on the several biggest gun auction sites to find some "sold-for" for-instances (don't forget to use the "advanced search" offered by the sight and include "completed" auctions for as far back in time as possible -or- needed).
Being as they are Piettas, and look to be "never fired" or real close to that, I'd bet that a starting price would need to be upwards of $350 or -better-.
Sure, any of us would like to score these for $200 a piece, but I'm certain that they cost the original purchaser (and undoubtably the retailer) much more than that.

UM BTW Stainless is also un magnatized soooo ya
that is a stainless frame and barrel not nickel plated as a matter of fact Pietta did not even offer either one of those models plated just thought you might like to know.

 

[kBob]

So following the advise given we find that values cn be......as low as first indicated and as high as claimed..

The value of something is what you will let it go for. On this board we have been discussing the inflated prices seen on the auction sites. FOr instance there is a .36 Remmie floating around that has been relisted repeatedly because "reserve not met" that has bids of over $200 as not enough every time. Others have taken a hundred and a half for them plus shipping. Mean while a member here yesterday walked out of a brick and mortar shop with one for $75.

So what is the value of a brass .36 remington NMA1858? Is it over $250 dollars or callit with shipping $170 or, as the one that is posted on this board yesterday, $75?

The value is what each owner was willing to sell the individual gun for and what each buyer was willig to pay.

Some would slobber all over the idea of getting one of your buddy's guns and run about the house breaking piggy banks and others of us would be put off by the gawdiness of those guns to the point where you would have to practically give them to us for us to own them.

Want a real education? Look at the prices on Ruger Old Army C&B revolvers. For similar guns the prices on the aution sites can varry by 300 percent on the same site. Go figure.

-kBob

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

KBob you dont seem to understand how NRA condition plays a major part in how much the guns are worth.
these two guns are new unfired in the original box condition which dictates a premium price if these guns were uses in perfect condition the price would decrease if they were in good condition they would still fetch a price of around 300 if they were in fair condition then you could get them for around 250

I would love to take either one of these guns off the guys hands for 250.00
both these revolvers are new cream of the crop that pietta makes so ya they are going to go for more than the average 1858 Remington copy especially what a well used one will fetch.

like I said a dealer will not pay MSR but that is what they would sell for in a brick and mortar store or even on line at Dixie or TOTW if they offered these models for sale.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

one other thing I would like to mention to the OP is that the stainless model canhave a drop in cartridge cylander conversion for cowboy loads but you would not want to do that with the brass frame model due to brass is softer than steel frames and can stretch with even standard powder charges after several hundred shots
I would recommend using light loads in the brasser it will still shoot very accurate even with a lighter charge and will last a lifetime if treated with care.

 

[samcolt1860]

The grades of stainless steel used for guns IS magnetic. :banghead:

 

[Foto Joe]

At the risk of repeating kBob, they're worth what somebody somewhere is willing to pay. As far as NIB on an Italian cap gun making it any more valuable than any other used gun out there I'm not so sure. If those were 3rd Generation Colts then NIB would have more meaning and yes I know that Mr. Sam never made Remmingtons.

"If" they're unfired and the owner wants to sell them then the best way to preserve the value is to NOT fire them and market them as such. I'm not saying that shooting them dimishes the value but from a marketing standpoint if it's his intention to unload them then keeping them NIB would financially be in his best interest. On the other hand if he wants to keep 'em, GO MAKE SMOKE!!!

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

Ok lets look at it at an appraisal point of view...
what it would cost to replace these guns would be what the blue book value dictates in their current NRA condition.

Hows that?

 

[Fingers McGee]

I'm afraid St8linegunsmith is incorrect in his description of both of these models. Neither one is stainess steel. The silver and gold Texas Model limited Edition is a brass framed/nickel plated version with a Blue Book NIB value of $305 - there's one on GB right now listed with an opening bid of $250 that will probably sell at that point. All of the Texas Models are brass framed.

The Texas Model Buffalo Target revolver has a Blue Book NIB value of around $350. The last one that sold on GB went for $135 plus shipping.

 

[St8LineGunsmith]

OOps I am mistaken I was looking at the steel frame buffalo model, sorry
and I see the Texas Buffalo model is nickel plated brass frame.
My bad and sorry for the misinformation both pistols has a $330.00 MSR NIB
actually the blued model is worth a little more with the adjustable sights.

 

[Jaymo]

Whether or not stainless steel is ferromagnetic depands on the alloy. Heat treatable alloys, as used for knife blades and guns, are normally magnetic. There are exceptions to every rule, of course.