Black Powder shotshells for home defense

[TheOutlawKid]

BTW, I’ve told this story here before so I’ll abbreviate it now. I was personally involved with a case in which a woman killed her romantic interest after he had mistaken romance for boxing practice one too many times. He was shot dead center by her .44 caliber Remington New Model Army. The defense made a part of it’s case the fact that her situation was so dire that she dared not make a break for her modern .357 but instead was forced to rely upon an antique to save her life.

Mr.woodnbow...you have some of the best stories from life experiences lol. If i may ask...what happened to the lady? Seems like an interesting case. Oh about digging holes...we dont dig holes...we set fires lol...or feed the wild javalinas. All joking aside...im confident in my guns enough to use a black powdwr gun for self defence. My guns always go bang...but i will admit they arent stock and id be hesitant to use a stock gun for defense especially if i had to shoot more than once as stock guns are more prone to cap jams etc. I can already see the confused look the assailant would have as im putting in my ear plugs as im holding my gun on him.

 

[MEHavey]

Ever fired a modern weapon within a closed space in the dark?

Yes.... (to put it mildly)
But having also fired a `61 Springfield in similar circumstances.... unforgettably different.

 

[treedoc1]

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Now THAT is a great picture. I like how the guy behind the shooter is holding a camera in one hand and another on his ear.

 

[whughett]

If you shoot someone with reloaded ammunition the lawyers are destined to claim you made it even more deadlier and inhumane that factory ammo.

Has this, to anyone’s knowledge. ever been a factor in justification or not of a righteous shooting. Been hearing that for 50 years and even make it a point to not use such Ammo in guns carried or spotted for home defense, and I reload everything I shoot.

 

[christcorp]

In my original post, and followups, I mentioned that I had commercial home defense ammo. But the main interest was with ammo being such a shortage; reloading supplies being such a shortage; black powder and substitutes being pretty available; and with shotguns not caring either way if it's BP or smokeless, I was curious of people's thoughts on using BP shotshells for home defense.

To answer/address some of the sidebar questions. No, I don't worry about a lot of home intruders. I live Wyoming. We don't have home intruders. They know that more than 66% of all adults in Wyoming have guns in the house and will shoot intruders no questions asked. Hence, why our crime rate is so low. We have our other crime problems, but break ins are not high on the list.

As for the legalities of reloading your own ammo for self/home defense; having 3 members of my family who are/were in law practices, this subject has come up a few times. Everything hinges on the autopsy. Nothing other than that will be used in court as evidence. If the autopsy shows the person was shot by a standard type handgun bullet; standard rifle bullet; or standard shotgun pellet/slug type of projectile, nothing about reloading is going to come up. That is a fact. There isn't anything that reloading normally can do that will make a round "More Deadly". Now; having said that. If you reload shotgun shells with dragon breath type material; nails; hot glue/birdshot; or some other unorthodox material, then yes, you could open yourself up for possible scrutiny.

Anyway; just curious if anyone loaded shotshells with BP and considered doing so for home defense. I wasn't asking for anyone to convince me either way on the subject. And honestly, it's not even a question that has a right or wrong answer. I think we all agree, that a BP shotshell is basically just as productive as a smokeless shotshell. And with BP being about the only powder that's widely available, I was curious who might be using it for home defense shotshells.

 

[J-Bar]

Now THAT is a great picture. I like how the guy behind the shooter is holding a camera in one hand and another on his ear.

I don’t think it’s a camera, probably a timer at a night cowboy action match. I’m sure he has earplugs in, but the concussion from a big load of blackpowder going off can still be uncomfortable to spectators. And you have very sharp eyes!!

 

[Jim Watson]

Well, if you look at it that way, black powder is an engineering solution. It will work as well as it ever did.
Yes, nitro is better for most non-nostalgic purposes, but if black is all you can get, it will get you by.
But that gets back to the volume question, if smokeless buckshot is scarce, why are you burning up your supply?

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

So when you call 911 you can ask for the fire department instead of the police

 

[4v50 Gary]

Flammenwerfer. I'd rather use a pump but would have to clean it thoroughly after using it. Whatever action, if it's going to sit in the police evidence locker, it's not going to be cleaned. I guarantee it.

 

[woodnbow]

Mr.woodnbow...you have some of the best stories from life experiences lol. If i may ask...what happened to the lady? Seems like an interesting case. Oh about digging holes...we dont dig holes...we set fires lol...or feed the wild javalinas. All joking aside...im confident in my guns enough to use a black powdwr gun for self defence. My guns always go bang...but i will admit they arent stock and id be hesitant to use a stock gun for defense especially if i had to shoot more than once as stock guns are more prone to cap jams etc. I can already see the confused look the assailant would have as im putting in my ear plugs as im holding my gun on him.

She was charged with 2nd degree murder. (Overcharged) After a relatively short trial during which the defense presented many witnesses to her boyfriend’s abusive behavior towards her, she was acquitted. She was a small woman and had suffered for years (we were called to the home many times) she claimed on the stand that he’d told her he was going to kill her. I guess she finally believed him.

 

[treedoc1]

Only 2.2 cc in the 12 gauge. Daytime looks good also.

 

[christcorp]

Well, if you look at it that way, black powder is an engineering solution. It will work as well as it ever did.
Yes, nitro is better for most non-nostalgic purposes, but if black is all you can get, it will get you by.
But that gets back to the volume question, if smokeless buckshot is scarce, why are you burning up your supply?

Believe it or not, for normal home defense, (Less than 30 feet), just about anything you shoot from a shotgun will be just about equally effective. 7 1/2 birdshot or 00-buck. Doesn't really matter. At 10 yards, 7 1/2 birdshot pattern is still only about the size of an orange. Here's a good video showing #8 at 10 feet with drywall, pork ribs, clothing, etc. vs #4 turkey loads. Then even tested THROUGH dual drywall, and Gel behind that, and the #8 pellets still penetrated the get about 6 inches. Definitely don't believe that buckshot is all you need. At home defense distances, buckshot is not a given "Better" choice. Pretty much anything at those short distances will work all about the same.

So when you call 911 you can ask for the fire department instead of the police

In Wyoming, when we call 911, we just tell them to bring the coroner.

 

[ThomasT]

Believe it or not, for normal home defense, (Less than 30 feet), just about anything you shoot from a shotgun will be just about equally effective. 7 1/2 birdshot or 00-buck. Doesn't really matter. At 10 yards, 7 1/2 birdshot pattern is still only about the size of an orange. Here's a good video showing #8 at 10 feet with drywall, pork ribs, clothing, etc. vs #4 turkey loads. Then even tested THROUGH dual drywall, and Gel behind that, and the #8 pellets still penetrated the get about 6 inches. Definitely don't believe that buckshot is all you need. At home defense distances, buckshot is not a given "Better" choice. Pretty much anything at those short distances will work all about the same.

Thats the point I was trying to make in post #6.

In one article by Mike Venturino he said they had tested several times shooting a revolver loaded with BP in an enclosed room with a lighted Kerosene lamp and without fail the BP rounds would extinguish the lamp from the concussion. But that it never happened when firing a smokeless load in the same conditions. I'm not sure that fact has any bearing on the use of a BP load from a shotgun in the home unless you decide to go full primitive and light your house with lamps. One shot and you will be fighting in the dark. Those earlier photos from Treedoc1 make that believable

 

[ThomasT]

Strange double post.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Am i the only one who wouldnt let the intruder leave? Someone breaks in to my house with the intent to hurt me...theyll probably never be seen again. Therefor no courts, no prosecuting attourney. Texas has huuuuge deserts. Hehe

Take them prisoner, and sell them to the Comancheros. (trade them for guns and whiskey) They'll never be seen again.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I'd worry more about stopping the threat, than what powder I was using, but I don't think black would be my best choice, even though I love black powder.

Having said that, I do have a short little side by side 12 gauge hammer gun, that I only shoot black in, and I do keep it loaded with buck-n-ball, in a room away from the bedroom, just in case that's where I am when the Comancheros attack unexpectedly. The buck-n-ball loads were just loaded for fun, or maybe berry-picking in bear country, three .375" balls under a .690" ball, over 110 grains of 2fg. Never did occur to me to use them for home defense. I did discover that at 20 yards, the .375"s spread so much they didn't even hit the target back-stop. Maybe one did once in a while. The other ones are still going. So at room distance, possibly perfect. ? !!! Anyhow, that little double looks very cool leaning against the wall, even though I'm sure I'd already have a more "appropriate" hunk of hardware in my hands, in case of attack.

 

[DocRock]

Take them prisoner, and sell them to the Comancheros. (trade them for guns and whiskey) They'll never be seen again.

Beware Judge Roy Bean....

 

[Gordon]

I too have 50 brass 12 ga. 2 1/2" shells and load them by 10s with FFG 90 grains and a dozen of .31 balls . I do NOT shoot them in a double, OH NO ! I have an antique Marlin "Widow Maker" pump with a 30" barrel of good steel that I have checked the mechanics of the action and know how to safely run it. I don't need any warnings,thank you. With that long barrel it is not that bad a flame thrower and always gets the hoots when I bring it out for a show. I would certainly use it for defence if I HAD to. The Patent dates only run to 1894 and 1897 , but it was the "improved " gun that Marlin replaced the early ones with for free in early 1900s . So for all practical purposes is an "antique" , and only an BATFE tech agent would know it wasn't made before 1898 I think. Back when I got it I took it to SASS at least 20 years ago and they made me take it off the property and put it in my truck .and multiple old codgers yelled at me until an old gunsmith took me aside and carefully explained why the hysteria. So Istudied the problem and determined mine was the update , but early, "replacement " model. The butt plate even says on it "Marlin Safety"

 

[derek45]

Even the 1860 Army and Remington NMA make massive muzzle flash....

GOEX fffg and .454" roundballs...