The Bolt Man
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 27
Black Powder Substitutes and Shooters Deserve Respect Also
First I want to say thanks to the Black Powder shooters. Without them I doubt those of us that enjoy the Black Powder Substitutes would be having our fun. I have tremendous respect for black powder shooters. They will maintain the traditional form of shooting black powder firearms as our forefathers did while having to endure the smoke and smell along with the awful clean up during and after all shooting sessions. I would hope the black powder shooters could show some respect for those of us that find a place in our black powder firearm shooting for the use of substitute powders. The use of the substitute powder does have its place for many shooters in a number of black powder firearms. It is determined by the shooters needs and desires and can serve the shooter well.
I see the major advantage of the Black Powder Substitutes as being long extended shooting sessions with my Ruger Old Army’s without having to stop and perform a messy cleaning every 25 rounds to keep the gun operating. I don’t have to be concerned about having to clean the gun as soon as I return home. My firearms are kept in a room with a dehumidifier that maintains relative humidity below 50% and rusting is not a problem. I clean at my convenience.
I feel there is a place for the Black Powder Substitutes. After shooting Black powder, I prefer the substitutes for use in my Ruger Old Army. They don’t measure up well to black powder in rifles and I admit that. I don’t miss the stink of Black Powder. I don’t miss the many breaks in a shooting session for the frequent clean up required of the revolver to prevent the gun from freezing up due to black powder fouling. I don’t miss the smelly clean up in the kitchen sink with my wife telling me never again. I do enjoy the long shooting sessions with little more than about every 20 to 25 rounds I run a damp patch down the bore. I do enjoy not having the bore so crudded up that accuracy goes away in just a few cylinders being fired. I do enjoy not having to rush home to clean my cap & ball revolver or lose it to rust. The next morning or the next day is fine and if you live in a dry climate perhaps next month or not until the next time it is used. If you live in a humid climate, clean it soon after shooting. This where I do disagree with the advertisements suggesting no clean up required after shooting their substitute powder. No sulfur no salts to cause rust. Your conditions may suggest otherwise. Powder residue that attracts water left in or on a steel gun is not a good combination.
I find the attacks on the Black Powder Substitutes and those that choose to use them, totally undeserved. Even many of the respected gun writers bash the Black Powder Substitutes. They are especially critical of the substitutes that clean up with just water. Isn’t water a main item in cleaning a black powder gun? It always was when I cleaned my black powder rifles. They always go on to say the substitute powders that clean up with just water, attract water like a sponge rendering the powder useless in a short period of time. These critics also like to talk about the water attracting nature of the fouling left from shooting a Black Powder Substitute causing guns to rust like crazy due to the moisture attracted by the powder fouling. Hog wash with proper care.
So, can anyone tell me why normal gun care, perhaps the same as if you had fired real Black Powder, is not in order. What ever happened to the saying, “Keep your powder dry.” Proper storage and the use of proper sealed containers prevents any powder from being affected by moisture in the air. Proper and timely cleaning of Black Powder firearms, even when a substitute powder is used, prevents all the problems the critics of Black Powder Substitutes suggest. Maybe what is really missing in the use of Black Powder or the Substitutes is common sense. Use whatever powder pleases you and use some common sense after your shooting session and you can avoid all the problems either powder can create.
I store all of my powders in the original containers. I place my frequently used containers in air tight ammo cans and my longer storage powder will have a desiccant bag added to the ammo can. Years of storage in this manner has shown no change in the nature of any of my powders.
I will admit the ballistics provided by most Black Powder Substitutes is not up to the level of good black powder. That isn’t necessarily all bad. In the case of my Ruger Old Army’s, I have two, and my shooting buddy has one, all three will shoot one ragged hole, ten shot groups at 50’ with 20 to 25 grains of American Pioneer. I don’t care how fast those round balls are going or not going when I am punching holes in paper, but I do care that they are not only all on the paper, but all in one ragged hole. I don’t hunt with my Ruger, I shoot target and a number of different targets. Even Bowling pins.
These Ruger Old Army’s do not like being pushed to high velocities with any powder. Accuracy falls off fast as the powder charges go up. My favorite 50 to 75 foot load is 19.1 grains of FFFG American Pioneer with 13.4 grains of corn meal on top of the powder and a .460” diameter cast pure lead ball seated on top. These charge weights are actual scale weights, not volume measurements. This combination provides the right amount of compression of the powder charge when the ball is rammed as far in as the rammer will permit. Some times I use a 1/8” thick dry felt wad on top of the corn meal. I am still not sure if the load with the wad is more or less accurate, the difference is too little. Also, when the wad is added, the bore stays squeaky clean through the entire day. This also makes for very consistent shot to shot compression. No grease on top of the ball. I have never had a chain fire. Use CCI number 11 caps. I found Remington caps to be very poor. Ignition inconsistent and accuracy poor.
When shooting bowling pins or other heavier targets, I go the 35 grains of FFFG American Pioneer. Accuracy is not quite as good as 20 grains, but with the ranges being shorter, hitting a pin is not a problem.
First I want to say thanks to the Black Powder shooters. Without them I doubt those of us that enjoy the Black Powder Substitutes would be having our fun. I have tremendous respect for black powder shooters. They will maintain the traditional form of shooting black powder firearms as our forefathers did while having to endure the smoke and smell along with the awful clean up during and after all shooting sessions. I would hope the black powder shooters could show some respect for those of us that find a place in our black powder firearm shooting for the use of substitute powders. The use of the substitute powder does have its place for many shooters in a number of black powder firearms. It is determined by the shooters needs and desires and can serve the shooter well.
I see the major advantage of the Black Powder Substitutes as being long extended shooting sessions with my Ruger Old Army’s without having to stop and perform a messy cleaning every 25 rounds to keep the gun operating. I don’t have to be concerned about having to clean the gun as soon as I return home. My firearms are kept in a room with a dehumidifier that maintains relative humidity below 50% and rusting is not a problem. I clean at my convenience.
I feel there is a place for the Black Powder Substitutes. After shooting Black powder, I prefer the substitutes for use in my Ruger Old Army. They don’t measure up well to black powder in rifles and I admit that. I don’t miss the stink of Black Powder. I don’t miss the many breaks in a shooting session for the frequent clean up required of the revolver to prevent the gun from freezing up due to black powder fouling. I don’t miss the smelly clean up in the kitchen sink with my wife telling me never again. I do enjoy the long shooting sessions with little more than about every 20 to 25 rounds I run a damp patch down the bore. I do enjoy not having the bore so crudded up that accuracy goes away in just a few cylinders being fired. I do enjoy not having to rush home to clean my cap & ball revolver or lose it to rust. The next morning or the next day is fine and if you live in a dry climate perhaps next month or not until the next time it is used. If you live in a humid climate, clean it soon after shooting. This where I do disagree with the advertisements suggesting no clean up required after shooting their substitute powder. No sulfur no salts to cause rust. Your conditions may suggest otherwise. Powder residue that attracts water left in or on a steel gun is not a good combination.
I find the attacks on the Black Powder Substitutes and those that choose to use them, totally undeserved. Even many of the respected gun writers bash the Black Powder Substitutes. They are especially critical of the substitutes that clean up with just water. Isn’t water a main item in cleaning a black powder gun? It always was when I cleaned my black powder rifles. They always go on to say the substitute powders that clean up with just water, attract water like a sponge rendering the powder useless in a short period of time. These critics also like to talk about the water attracting nature of the fouling left from shooting a Black Powder Substitute causing guns to rust like crazy due to the moisture attracted by the powder fouling. Hog wash with proper care.
So, can anyone tell me why normal gun care, perhaps the same as if you had fired real Black Powder, is not in order. What ever happened to the saying, “Keep your powder dry.” Proper storage and the use of proper sealed containers prevents any powder from being affected by moisture in the air. Proper and timely cleaning of Black Powder firearms, even when a substitute powder is used, prevents all the problems the critics of Black Powder Substitutes suggest. Maybe what is really missing in the use of Black Powder or the Substitutes is common sense. Use whatever powder pleases you and use some common sense after your shooting session and you can avoid all the problems either powder can create.
I store all of my powders in the original containers. I place my frequently used containers in air tight ammo cans and my longer storage powder will have a desiccant bag added to the ammo can. Years of storage in this manner has shown no change in the nature of any of my powders.
I will admit the ballistics provided by most Black Powder Substitutes is not up to the level of good black powder. That isn’t necessarily all bad. In the case of my Ruger Old Army’s, I have two, and my shooting buddy has one, all three will shoot one ragged hole, ten shot groups at 50’ with 20 to 25 grains of American Pioneer. I don’t care how fast those round balls are going or not going when I am punching holes in paper, but I do care that they are not only all on the paper, but all in one ragged hole. I don’t hunt with my Ruger, I shoot target and a number of different targets. Even Bowling pins.
These Ruger Old Army’s do not like being pushed to high velocities with any powder. Accuracy falls off fast as the powder charges go up. My favorite 50 to 75 foot load is 19.1 grains of FFFG American Pioneer with 13.4 grains of corn meal on top of the powder and a .460” diameter cast pure lead ball seated on top. These charge weights are actual scale weights, not volume measurements. This combination provides the right amount of compression of the powder charge when the ball is rammed as far in as the rammer will permit. Some times I use a 1/8” thick dry felt wad on top of the corn meal. I am still not sure if the load with the wad is more or less accurate, the difference is too little. Also, when the wad is added, the bore stays squeaky clean through the entire day. This also makes for very consistent shot to shot compression. No grease on top of the ball. I have never had a chain fire. Use CCI number 11 caps. I found Remington caps to be very poor. Ignition inconsistent and accuracy poor.
When shooting bowling pins or other heavier targets, I go the 35 grains of FFFG American Pioneer. Accuracy is not quite as good as 20 grains, but with the ranges being shorter, hitting a pin is not a problem.
