blackpowder gun to get

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Bondo_Red

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I'm not old enough to get a rifle or handgun,so I'm going to get a blackpowder gun.Thing is, I can get a rifle in april,so I'm saving most of my money for that.I just want to start shooting and getting experience.I'm thinking about a derringer kit (http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_162_194&products_id=870)
because its cheap,and apparently decent for its size and price.Can anyone recommend this gun,another black powder gun to buy thats under 150$? I'm also curious as to whether I should buy a pre assembled gun or a kit.I like building stuff,but I'm not particulary talented at it.
 
Given the anti-gun climate in Mass., you better check local laws and regulations. It is likely that they do not distinguish a BP pistol from a smokeless pistol when counting for age, carrying, and so on. Better be safe and ask a real law person about that.
 
If you find out for sure that it's legal for you to own a black powder pistol, I would recommend a reproduction Colt 1860 or Remington New Army. Either could be found for around $150 used at a gun show. Either of those revolvers would be a much better option for defense and would probably be much better quality than the derringer. Both of these models are available with shorter barrels (5 1/2" ?) which would make it much more practical if you intend to carry it.
Here in Indiana, we can get a handgun permit at 18 but can't buy a handgun until one is 21. I made due with a Pietta New Army in my "between" years, and actually carried it concealed occasionally. Just remember to keep the hammer over an empty chamber for safety. The Remingtons have notches on the cylinder to rest the hammer in, but that never seemed secure enough for me.
Good luck.
 
a navy colt reproduction seems to be a good choice.can some someone reccomend a place I can shoot at that won't cost me a ton of money?It seems most places want a 50-200$ membership and 10$ an hour for range time.
 
In my opinion, kits are for those that enjoy building a gun as much or more than shooting it. The time and effort involved is no where compensated by the money saved. Not only that, but kit guns do not have the warranty and that may matter later. The most fun blackpowder revolver I have is the 1860 Army but cost about $50.00 more than your budget. You might want to save up a little more if possible. If not... you might consider the 1851 Confederate Navy 44 cal for about $140.00 at Cabela's. Be careful of overloading because it is an open top brass frame. I have never handled a Dixie derringer so can't comment on them. Might be a fun way to start though. Ed.
 
As a new black powder person, and a youngin. Stay so far away from those civil war revolvers. They are way more hassle than they are worth.

Single shots work just fine, and you wont have any of the problems KOWN to happen with the revolvers.

Ive been doing BP for over 40 years now. I had those revolvers many years ago, and they are still trash today.

Sorry guys. When the kid gets older and more experienced, then he can play with the six shooters.

startem off without the fustration that comes with multi-chambered revolvers.
 
Duh WHAT?

I don't even know what to say about that nonsense. Well, I do, but there are standards we try to uphold around here and the kind of language that calls to mind is out of bounds.
 
My first and only(plan on getting more) black powder revolver is a 1858 Remington clone made by Pietta. I read up on buying, loading, shooting and cleaning on this and other forums. I have had zero problems with loading, shooting and cleaning the gun in the little over a year I owned it using the info I had found using the internet.The one thing I have found to be a big help is a cylinder loading stand, the one where you take the cylinder out of the gun and use the cylinder stand to load it. It is faster in my opinion in 1858 Remington's than loading the gun with the cylinder in it. I would advise you to buy one of the Cabelas 1858 Remingtons for $199.99. You won't regret it as your first black powder revolver. For that price you can get the .44 with an 8" barrel or the .36 with the 6 1\2" barrel. My next gun is going to be the .36 with the 6 1\2" barrel. Just my personal experience and yours may be different so everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
 
never_no_more, boy sure wish ya could convince my 12 year old niece that them civil war revolvers are so much trouble then maybe she'd stop shootin em so much........ she started with onea my 1858 replicas at age 8 and now owns an 1858 of her own but thats not bad enough she also put all her baby sittin $$ into an 1860 colt an 1861 colt navy and an 1851 navy all in steel frames all in original calibers worse part is she has gotten a whole bunch of her lil girl friends into shootin em as well so I gotta deal with about a half dozen lil girls smokin up the range while I'm tryin to get custom FALs and AKs dialed in!!

Ya know they never bother me with any problems at all its just h#ll tryin to see my targets with all of em competin against each other shootin at the same time.....

Son, look at an 1858 Remmy in a steel frame, goin used ain't a bad deal if ya study up on em and ask questions so ya know what your lookin for in the way of a good used C&B revolver, my neice has gotten to be quite an expert on em herself and really enjoys embarrasin old men who think she's just a dumb lil girl she generally knows more than they do and it don't take long for em to decide they got important business elswhere, the 1858 makes a good starter gun, don't even waste your time with a single shot derringer especially if ya plan to depend on it as a deffensive arm at any time....... I've only been playin with em 34 years now though so I might not know as much bout em as our friend above there yet but I do know I've NEVER had any problems with any of the civil war guns in all of them 34 years that were not caused by myself...

For about 8 years I carried an old 1858 all over the woods up in Oregon as a kid it was also my "work gun" when I worked cattle as a teenager in some very rough territory up there it never once let me down and many a rattler died from a shot fired from horseback by that ol Remmy and countless cotton tails and even a few pheasants, it was a beat up ugly thing with alota exterior rust pitting as it was always wet and raining and the gun was worn exposed in a slim jim holster around my waist or slung on the saddle horn the sweat from the horses I think was the worse but ya know that old gun always went bang when I needed it to..... Back then I coulda legally carried my Dads old S&W .38 and did on occasion as they had a clause for kids workin on a ranch but I always felt comfortable with the Remmy don't even recall now who it was made by but it was a good one
 
Yeah consider the '58 Rem. you will need an accesory kit with it. a good powder measure is empty brass. use a 7.62X39 (AK, SKS) case for hot load, a .357 for medium load, a .38 for target. and use 3F with a felt or fiber wad over. a powder flask should be around 15-18$$.
You will need a nipple wrench and spare nipples also. and of course percussion caps. always grease well the cylinder pin and rest the hammer in the safety notch between chambers.
round balls slightly oversize of the chambers are required, usually .454 to shave a ring of lead off when pressing into the chamber.
this is just a breif rundown if you want real detailed info register (free) on The Muzzleloading Forum. great people there and willing to help.
 
Go with an 1851 Colt Navy reproduction. Best feel of any gun in my hand anyways...Sam Colt got this design right! If you get a good quality repro. and load it right, you won't have any trouble. If it's brass framed just keep the loads down a bit. Use slightly oversized round balls (swaged are better than cast for revolvers I think due to their uniformity) so they leave a slight ring of shaved off lead. You can also seal the chambers with grease or use wonder wads under the ball to protect against chain firing but if the ball is the correct sized you shouldn't have a problem. Use the right size caps for your revolver. They should fit tightly so they don't fall off.

If you want a single shot, a lot of old CVA and Traditions and other brand pistols show up on gunbroker and auctionarms. An old CVA Colonial or the like isn't that expensive and should work good...

And I'll second what others said, be sure you can legally buy it. You may need a parent to buy it for you...
 
Well, I bought my first percussion revolver (Rem. 1858) at the age of 17 and while they have their own tricks they sure ain't "too much hassle" for a beginner IMHO. Especially not when you can discuss your possible problems here!

I bought a Kentucky pistol few weeks ago and while it's real fun to shoot getting the balls started and rammed is quite hard (I need a rubber mallet for that, maybe the patch I'm using is too thick, or the ball). Revolver is a bit more hassle to clean but it's faster to reload.
 
Never no more, have ya ever SEEN a revolver chain fire that was properly loaded and had the correct size caps installed? Cause outa 34 years and hundreds of them revolvers I have NEVER seen one chain fire even out here in AZ where folks will tend to skip grease over the ball as it just melts away etc... Have done hundreds os CAS shoots with C&B never a chain fire, my neice and her friends are out on our private range right this minute they been shooting all morning its 2:30 now and ya know even them lil pre-teen girls can handle the size of the C&B revolvers listed above with zero difficulty in fact the 1858s are all of ems favorites and ya know non of them pre-teen lil girls have had any chain fires either in the 4 years they been shootin out here EVERY weekend and often in the middle of the week as well........ guess they can't be too prone to chain fires otherwise I'm sure I'd have seen at least one outa all these years.......

Can't be too bulky either as onea the lil girls (shes 9 YOA) her favorite is my neices 1862 Navy as she likes the little "bullets" cause they are cute.... all my neices friends parents are always thanking me and my wife for lettin their kids get to learn and play out here, keeps em off the internet and out gettin sun as opposed to bein on the phone all the time and they are all VERY well versed in safty and responsibility something they probably won't learn hangin out at the mall....

Elexia wants to buy her another 1858 after she has saved up a few more $$ for me to cut down for her into a 4 1/2" as she really enjoys shooting the ones I have done for myself...... its actually already been made for her and is sittin in my desk drawer right now but my brother asked me not to give it to her until she has earned the full $175 she started saving up for one.....

oh and while loading stands can be handy, ya don't have to have one, myself I never bother as its just as fast and easy for me to load em the same way the originals were loaded.... folks back in the 19th century weren't carryin around loading stands in their saddle bags, spare nipples are nice but...... as long as ya aren't dry fireing it all the time chances are ya will never need em, all of mine still have their original nipples some are over 20 years old and still like new, a nipple wrench yes, I don't carry around a whole big kit to go shooting C&B revolvers just the same gear a US cavalry man normally carried a ball pouch and a cartridge pouch holds everything ya need so don't be intimidated by these shooters ya see packin a couple tackle boxes etc.. what ya will need for a .44 1858 to start shooting is

#1 a Gun

#2 a pound of FFFG powder (or pyrodex etc...) bout $13

#3 an old .357 mag case for a powder measure

#4 Some caps #11s usually $3.99 per 100

#5 some .454" lead balls $9 per 100 here in Tucson at Sportsmans warehouse

#6 some Crisco or bore butter to get ya started

#7 a small bottle of virgin olive oil to lube the gun $1.00

ya are ready to go shoot all the other items can wait till later as chances are ya are not going to destroy any nipples your first day out or be in any CAS competitions needin a table full of gadgets etc...

As for holsters a basic Slim jim very well made can be had at Cabelas for $17 either cross draw or standard strong side carry they are a lil high on everything else though, ya can fit all your supplies into a 4"x3"x1" thick leather pouch its worked for me for 34 years and it worked for the South and the North all through the civil war and afterwards, for cleaning ya will need some hot water and dish soap, a piece of wood dowel to push patches through the bore and a few Q-Tips

Have fun and enjoy
 
My first and only(plan on getting more) black powder revolver is a 1858 Remington clone made by Pietta. I read up on buying, loading, shooting and cleaning on this and other forums. I have had zero problems with loading, shooting and cleaning the gun
Click to expand...

My experience exactly! I would like to add that using pyrodex pellets and wonder wads will take a lot of the hassle out of the loading process. It's a lot easier than pouring measured powder loads in each chamber and lubing each bullet. Loading one the old-fashioned way might be more enjoyable for the experienced shooter, but I think my way would be a little easier for a beginner.
 
dstorm1911 - you're just wasting electrons trying to convince Never No More. He had a hard time once some 40 years ago and has learned nothing since, so you aren't about to convince him of anything. Even if you and several thousand other people know better. And you do.

I, too, started out shooting black powder 40 years ago, with a single shot CVA Kentucky pistol. I still have it and shoot it. I now own 5 single shot bp pistols (4 of which I built), 2 single shot bp rifles (I built both), 2 bp shotguns (built 1) and 13 bp revolvers. Each and every one has it's own personality, it's own idiosyncracies, and each is a joy to shoot, clean and polish. I learn something nearly everyt time I take them out.

Never No More is so far off base he's just plain silly with his complaints about revolvers. And frankly, more power to him - let's just leave him behind like the rest of the world has.
 
6 gunner, as Antiquecollector mentions paper cartridges, which is the way BP Revolvers were usually loaded in the old days, I never mess with loose powder ever, ya get much better results and faster reloads with paper cartridges I usually roll everything into each cartridge the ball, felt wad, card stock wad then powder using a thick straw to roll the ciggerette paper around twist it closed over the ball then dump the powder through the straw pull the straw out and twist the rear closed only takes a few seconds to make each can make up a hundred rounds in an hour, to load ya simply untwist the bottom between finger and thunb as your dropping the whole thing into the chamber then ram it down and all ya got left is to cap it...... much much more reliable than pellets and alot cheaper

My neice just loads the powder in her paper cartridges because she prefers to have an option between conical or ball when loading her cyl. the premeasured
Paper charges allows ya to fine tune for best accuracy for instance with pellets ya can't get a 33 grn load which is exactly what gives single hole accuracy from my cut down 1858s at 20 yards or 21 grns for my 3 1862 Navy .36s well Elexia has all her C&B revolvers dialed in to the grain for best accuracy so she has preloaded charges for each gun (she writes the grn number on each) when her and her friends are shooting she has different reloader boxes (the lil plastic ones for different calibers) each filled with paper charges for each gun which ever girl is shooting any given gun just takes the box that goes with it and no risk of a powder flask igniting etc... as there is no powder flask.......

its also why I don't have to carry around a bunch of gadgets when I go shooting I'll take a hundred preloaded paper cartridges in my leather pouch the US Cavalry ball pouch actually contains a snail capper with 100 caps in it, a second tin of Remington caps and a small antique oil bottle filled with virgin olive oil (its a round afair about the size of a percussion cap tin with a very fine point brass spout with a chain mounted brass cap threaded on the tip to protect it) in the leather cartridge pouch I have a few q-tips in the bottom, a 12" length of rawhide with a knot at one end just barely to bore diameter and a few cotton patches ya put a hole in the cotton patch push the raw hide through the hole till its against the knot ya now got a very effective pull through for cleaning your barrel in the field, the rest of the pouch contents is paper cartridges it holds 100 in two small plasit zip lock baggies 50 per baggie.....

ya need nothin else out here in the desert I'll get on onea the horses or on the dirt bike and just take off for the day with a couple C&B revolvers one in a cross draw holster on my left the other in a western drop holster on the right the gun belt is styled after the western drop holster/gunfighter rig but without cartridge loops instead its got 2 holsters and the two pouches, I frequently shoot impromtu targets from horseback and reload while still in the saddle this would be very difficult if useing loose powder and balls but with paper cartridges its as simple as loading an 1873 cartridge gun.....

the most common guns ya'll find in them holsters are usually a cutdown 1858 in the crossdraw and a full length in the drop holster or a chopped 1862 navy in the crossdraw and an 1860 in the drop holster or a chopped 1860 in the crossdraw and a full length 1862 in the drop holster..... the crossdraw holster started as onea the $17 cabelas holsters then I trimmed the end for a 5" C&B thr right side holster was also $17 and is a single loop style but a slimjim cut for C&B revolvers the belt is Cabelas $42 decorated gunfighter belt minus cartridge loops, occasionally I'll throw another strap type belt on with a left handed holster and add a 3rd gun slung low and if I'm in a real mood I'll add another pair in a double shoulder holster I made myself (I do leather work when time permits making many of my own holsters for my modern guns) for a total of 5 guns AND if I'm really expectin troublesome ground squirles I'll add a 6th in a diagonal holster behind my back this is ALWAYS a cutdown 1858 or cutdown 1862 as the smaller grip fits gets in the way less.....

And if I'm really expectin trouble I'll just add an AKM to the whole thing:D
 
When I see posts by guys like never-no-more I am sorry that the only contact I have with him is through this box on our desks. I am willing to bet that he is making one or two mistakes, for the last forty years, and if one of us could show him what it is he would change. He is locked into a way of doing things that doesn't work well and his pride prevents him from seeing this.
 
And for Bondo-Red
I know it is more then $150 but I just got an 1858 Remington Buffalo Texas revolver. It's on sale at Dixie Gun Works for $175. It has a twelve inch barrel and can be fitted with a shoulder stock. The shoulder stock sells for $165. This is my second 1858 Remington. Some people will tell you to stay away from brass frame revolvers. This is because they have a tendency to stretch if you use to many high power loads. My first, and second, revolver are brass framed. I have shot the first one many many times and it is still as tight as the day I bought it. But I like hitting what I aim at so I use 20 grains of 3F. This is more then enough to get the job done. I see guys shooting 30 grains and I suspect this is the root of the problem.

If You are going to get into it you might start looking at casting your own bullets as well, in the log run it's a lot cheaper. A small lead pot from Lee is cheap and lead can be free, if you use wheel weights. It's best to use pure lead but that is not always easy to find, I cast Lee 200 grain conical bullets. They shoot the best out of my C&B revolvers. You can lube them with stuff like Johnson's Floor Wax. A one pound can cost about five dollars and will last a very long time.

This hobby can be a lot of fun. But it does have it's draw backs. You are shooting deadly weapons. There are people that think you should not be allowed this freedom. And a great many of them live in the state that you live in. The last thing you want is to be caught carring a concealed weapon. This will lose you the right to fire a gun, to vote in elections and will generally make the rest of your life unpleasant. When you apply for a job and they ask if you have ever been convicted of a crime you will have to say yes. The employer really won't care that it was for an antique revolver. He will just see a gun charge. So please resits the urge to carry your gun. When you get old enough move to a state that has Concealed Carry Permits. Be smart and don't blow your self out of the water doing something stupid.

If you want any more advice feel free to post your questions or ideas or you can PM me with them. I will give you my honest opinion, as I suspect most on this forum will do.
 
1858

Bondo Red, buy the 1858,you'll love it! MisFire99 that is great advice,my wife works for an employment agency.The applicatants don't even get a chance to explain anything that shows up on their background check,its over,done deal,don't come back.
 
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