Buying ammo online...?

[wannabeagunsmith]

Hey I am 18 and I want to buy a cal of .40 cal for my Hipoint Carbine online.. first of all, can I legally do this at my age because it is technically pistol ammunition? Second, what all do I have to do in order to purchase, and what are some good companies to buy from?

 

[allaroundhunter]

Hey I am 18 and I want to buy a cal of .40 cal for my Hipoint Carbine online.. first of all, can I legally do this at my age because it is technically pistol ammunition? Second, what all do I have to do in order to purchase, and what are some good companies to buy from?

It is not technically pistol ammunition. It is simply ammunition.

Legally speaking, because the ammo is for a rifle it is legal for you to purchase (from a federal law standpoint, I'm not sure of your local laws). Practically speaking, no online dealer will sell it to you, and most likely neither will any walk-in store.

However, the process to purchase ammo from online retailers differs from place to place. Some places require you submit to them photo ID, and some require you to give an 'electronic signature' saying that you are not lying about your age.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Those over 18 but younger than 21 can purchase rifle ammo but not ammo classified as pistol ammo. Your 40 cal is pistol ammo and stores won't sell it to you unless you are 21 or over. Saw this happen when a young man tried to buy .223 and even though we know it was rifle ammo it had been entered wrong in the computer,listed as pistol ammo, the store could not sale it to him as he was not 21 or older. Everyone knew it was wrong but until the change was made he couldn't buy it.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Those over 18 but younger than 21 can purchase rifle ammo but not ammo classified as pistol ammo. Your 40 cal is pistol ammo and stores won't sell it to you unless you are 21 or over. Saw this happen when a young man tried to buy .223 and even though we know it was rifle ammo it had been entered wrong in the computer,listed as pistol ammo, the store could not sale it to him as he was not 21 or older. Everyone knew it was wrong but until the change was made he couldn't buy it.

As I said earlier, .40 caliber ammo is not legally classified as pistol ammo.

The federal statute says this [(18 USC § 922]

"(x) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile -

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun"


Obviously, .40 cal ammo is not suitable for use only in a handgun, and very few calibers that people think of 'pistol ammo' actually falls into this category. So, it is possible that if the OP takes his carbine to a gun store (if it is allowed) that it will be sold to him.

 

[Comrade Mike]

Most brick and mortar shops and I'd say all online places will not sell .40 to you under 21 regardless of what the law says. You'll likely get the "store policy" run around. Ask me how I know

 

[X-JaVeN-X]

I remember a few years back, at my local walmart, the computer would prompt them to ask you what the ammo was for it it could be used in both handgun or rifle. Your answer would determine if they checked your ID for 18 or 21. I don't know if they still do this or not as I haven't been under 21 in quite a few years. I used to think it was kind of silly because there was nothing stopping you from answering "rifle" even if you were buying it for a handgun....but then again, what gun laws aren't silly?

 

[Warp]

As I said earlier, .40 caliber ammo is not legally classified as pistol ammo.

The federal statute says this [(18 USC § 922]

"(x) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile -

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun"


Obviously, .40 cal ammo is not suitable for use only in a handgun, and very few calibers that people think of 'pistol ammo' actually falls into this category. So, it is possible that if the OP takes his carbine to a gun store (if it is allowed) that it will be sold to him.

This is correct ^

However, some (man) retailers choose to define handgun vs rifle/shotgun cartridges themselves and choose not to sell what they consider to be handgun ammo to 18-20 year olds.

So it can be difficult, unfortunately, to get ammo for what we call a pistol caliber carbine when you are <21 years old.


What I would do in your position is ask a family member or friend who is 21 to buy it for you...or take a simple picture of you and the pistol caliber carbine on your phone and show it to a sales person at wherever it is they try to say they can't sell it to you...or go to a gun show...or find a private seller online (gunbroker, armslist, craiglist, whatever) who will do it.

 

[PabloJ]

Hey I am 18 and I want to buy a cal of .40 cal for my Hipoint Carbine online.. first of all, can I legally do this at my age because it is technically pistol ammunition? Second, what all do I have to do in order to purchase, and what are some good companies to buy from?

I bought some 9.3x62 from Able's Ammo of Tx. The price was good and they were great to deal with.

 

[45_auto]

There are hopefully very few vendors who would even think about trying to classify 9.3 x 62 as "pistol only" ammo!

 

[beatledog7]

Devil's Advocate post: When you bought your carbine in a pistol caliber, did you consider the fact that buying ammo for it was illegal for you to do?

 

[wannabeagunsmith]

Hate to say this guys but I have had no problem finding 40 for my carbine In stores, anyway.

 

[Iramo94]

Devil's Advocate post: When you bought your carbine in a pistol caliber, did you consider the fact that buying ammo for it was illegal for you to do?

Counter: This is a self-inconsistent statement. The fact that you call the firearm a "carbine" and not a "handgun" makes purchase of the ammo legal.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Devil's Advocate post: When you bought your carbine in a pistol caliber, did you consider the fact that buying ammo for it was illegal for you to do?

Him buying ammo for it isn't illegal. He can even buy it legally from a dealer.

Did you read my earlier post before posting something that is blatantly false?

 

[Warp]

Devil's Advocate post: When you bought your carbine in a pistol caliber, did you consider the fact that buying ammo for it was illegal for you to do?

It's not. Please stop spreading false information

 

[doc2rn]

I would take the rifle with me to a gun store and ask for .40 cal ammo to go with your rifle. In this instance showing them the intended use may garner you some .40 cal ammo. However you may not be able to get it otherwise in bulk from an online retailer.

 

[Telekinesis]

Most online retailers will ask for a copy of photo ID. IIRC some only require you to be 18 to order any ammo (their system doesn't distinguish between pistol and rifle calibers), but I'm not sure exactly which stores do that anymore. I actually had a lot of success buying 9mm ammo at my local gun store while I was under 21. They didn't check my ID once.

I'd probably go with taking a picture of you and your rifle on your cell phone and showing the store clerk that the ammo is for a long gun. It likely won't get much traction at a Walmart or a similar store, but you may have some luck with actual gun stores.

 

[NavyLCDR]

because it is technically pistol ammunition?

You are the beginning of your own problem... .40 S&W is NOT technically pistol ammunition. It is small arms ammunition.

As I said earlier, .40 caliber ammo is not legally classified as pistol ammo.

The federal statute says this [(18 USC § 922]

"(x) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile -

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun"


Obviously, .40 cal ammo is not suitable for use only in a handgun, and very few calibers that people think of 'pistol ammo' actually falls into this category. So, it is possible that if the OP takes his carbine to a gun store (if it is allowed) that it will be sold to him.

In addition, you might want to look further down a little bit in 18 USC 922 (x) and see who it applies to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

As long as the seller of the ammunition does not possess an FFL...and an FFL is not required to be a dealer in ammunition only...the legal age for the buyer in Federal law for pistol ammunition is 18. NOT 21! Most online dealers who sell ammunition but not firearms do not have FFLs because they do not require one, therefore their age limit for "handgun ammunition" is 18.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#small-arms-ammo-licensing

Q: Is a license required to engage in the business of selling small arms ammunition?

No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of ammunition must be licensed.

The 21 age limit applies only when the purchases is buying ammunition INTENDED FOR USE IN A HANDGUN from an FFL and has nothing to do with caliber. That is 18 USC 922 (b)(1).

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

There is an ATF newsletter to FFLs available for the ATF website that states that for ammunition that can be used in a rifle or handgun - the intended use of the ammunition determines whether the age limit is 18 or 21 - not the specific caliber of the ammunition. State law, of course, may be more restrictive.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#interchangeable-ammo-sales

Q: May a licensee sell interchangeable ammunition such as .22 cal. rimfire to a person less than 21 years old?

Yes, provided the buyer is 18 years of age or older, and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement is applicable.

There is nothing in Federal law that designates .40 S&W ammunition as "pistol only". Hopefully this will help clear up some of the misinformation out there.

 

[beatledog7]

My we are testy, are we not?

I do know that it's not illegal for the OP to buy .40cal. Sorry I misspoke.

What I meant to say was that the OP might have considered when he bought the carbine that he'd have some trouble buying .40S&W ammo since a lot sellers consider it handgun ammo and will require proof of age. They will think selling it to anyone under 21 is illegal.

 

[Warp]

My we are testy, are we not?

I do know that it's not illegal for the OP to buy .40cal. Sorry I misspoke.

What I meant to say was that the OP might have considered when he bought the carbine that he'd have some trouble buying .40S&W ammo since a lot sellers consider it handgun ammo and will require proof of age. They will think selling it to anyone under 21 is illegal.

...you did say, matter of factly, flat out, that it would be illegal for him to buy .40 ammo.

After multiple other posts detailing why it was legal.

It appeared as though you were spreading misinformation regarding the law after having not bothered to read the few replies that had already been posted.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

You are the beginning of your own problem... .40 S&W is NOT technically pistol ammunition. It is small arms ammunition.



In addition, you might want to look further down a little bit in 18 USC 922 (x) and see who it applies to:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922



As long as the seller of the ammunition does not possess an FFL...and an FFL is not required to be a dealer in ammunition only...the legal age for the buyer in Federal law for pistol ammunition is 18. NOT 21! Most online dealers who sell ammunition but not firearms do not have FFLs because they do not require one, therefore their age limit for "handgun ammunition" is 18.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#small-arms-ammo-licensing



The 21 age limit applies only when the purchases is buying ammunition INTENDED FOR USE IN A HANDGUN from an FFL and has nothing to do with caliber. That is 18 USC 922 (b)(1).



There is an ATF newsletter to FFLs available for the ATF website that states that for ammunition that can be used in a rifle or handgun - the intended use of the ammunition determines whether the age limit is 18 or 21 - not the specific caliber of the ammunition. State law, of course, may be more restrictive.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#interchangeable-ammo-sales



There is nothing in Federal law that designates .40 S&W ammunition as "pistol only". Hopefully this will help clear up some of the misinformation out there.

The law may say one thing but a particular store policy may be different in this csse and I've seen store policy win out. I don't know of any retailer in my are that would sell 40 cal ammo to anyone under 21 regardles what they say the intended use was for simply because the one purchasing said ammo could be telling a lie. They don't want the problems that may arise out of such a sale.

 

[NavyLCDR]

My we are testy, are we not?

If posting factual information with references so that people can be better informed, then yeah, I am testy. And I will continue to be testy.

 

[beatledog7]

I admitted the mistake. Guilty as charged.

It would have been easy for others to respectfully note that I erred, but instead I was attacked. Not very High Road.

 

[GBExpat]

Hate to say this guys but I have had no problem finding 40 for my carbine In stores, anyway.

Good to hear that you can source it locally.