C&R benifits and costs?

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AJAX22

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I've been seriously considering getting a C&R, I enjoy older firearms and there are alot of pieces of military hardware that I would like to add to my collection at a discount.

At the same time I would prefer to not put my existing collection into the system.

What does it take to get a C&R exactly? is it a long and involved process? Do guns I had prior to getting my C&R have to be entered in the little bound book that I hear so much about?

at 50-55 bucks extra (minimum) per gun to go through a dealer its a powerfull financial incentive.

How would I go about buying the guns and then passing the discount on to friends? would I have to go through an FFL private party transfer?

C&R seems to be a nifty licence, but are there any invasions of privacy that come with it? extra scrutiny from big brother?

Let me know what your experiances have been getting a C&R.

If this has already been discussed on a different thread, links would be appriciated, I could have just missed them when I was searching.

Thanks guys.
 
I would appreciate an answer to the questions as well....

Specifically the level of 'input' from 'big brother' you have to deal with.
 
Just fill out form 7CR in duplicate, and send a copy of it to BATFE with $30, and a copy of the application to your CLEO, (don't send him money). No action on behalf of the CLEO is required, you are just legally requred to notify him that you are applying for an FFL.

You are required to maintain a bound book of all 03 FFL elligible firearms you either aquire or dispose of with your lisence. DO NOT include weapons that are not 03 FFL elligible, or were not aquired without your lisence. You are only requred to maintain such records for the duration of your FFL. Your bound books and 03 FFL collection may be inspected once per year by BATFE if they so desire, but it must be made by appointment only. It can either be done at your residence, or at the local field office. I've never been even contacted by BATFE other than getting the FFL news letter once in a while, along with new statute books. I've had my 03FFL for 2 years now, and I've never been inspected, (although I am maintaining compliance with my bound book just in case).

As far as getting firearms delivered, you send a copy of your 03 FFL to various distributors, (such as Century, AIM Surplus, SOG, J&G Sales, Centerfire Systems, etc), signed in blue or red ink. You will then be able to order directly from them and have the weapons shipped to your door, (so long as they are 03FFL elligible). 03FFL elligible pistols must go through a 01 FFL for transfer in the state of California.

Concerning getting your friends in on the deal, you cannot legally do this in a very convenient way. Purchase of weapons for any party other then the lisenced individual could be considered mis-use of your FFL, and having it revoked. A 03 FFL is for personal collections only, not for running a businuss. About the only way I know of that you could do it, (legally), is to sell them your "rejects", (buy 3 91/30's, and sell the 2 you don't like). As far as transfering weapons, that depends upon state regulations. You are only requred to log in or out all weapons purchased or sold with the aid of your 03 FFL, (log in all 3 weapons, log out 2 rejects).
 
If you intend to increase YOUR OWN collection, for $30 you will save at least that on your first gun purchase.

It is not a dealers license. Don't get it intending on dealing in arms.

You are permitted to dispose of the occassional weapon that doesn't suit your own collection. You can also gift guns. Just don't make a business of it.

You are required to keep a bound book -- a log of purchases and sales.

I have one and have increased my own gun collection 2 fold. There are a lot of great weapons out there for under $150.

It's a great investment for increasing your own collection.

Definately some extra scrutiny from Big Brother. Just don't do anything illegal or draw attention to yourself by disposing of too many of your collection. Follow the rules.

My experience has been all positive.

www.surplusguns.com
 
One correction to what was said:

If you have a C&R gun, however acquired, it DOES have to be entered into the bound book. Apparently previous acquisitions don't need logging, but if you get, say, a Mosin Nagant at a gun store or gun show without using the license, you still need to log it. The bound book is a record of guns for a collection acquired and disposed during the time you had a valid license.

The ATF doesn't bother with looking at the books of an 03 FFL; the only reason they might is if you reported offloading a large amount of them when renewing, or if some guns used in crimes were traced to you. I have yet to hear of a C&R licensee having to make an appointment with the ATF to check out the book- they have not talked to me at all.

A C&R is an easy and inexpensive thing to get, and well worth the time, even if you don't get too much into C&R guns. I wasn't intending to do much with mine, but I have found the call of these interesting historical firearms (shipped to my door for cheap, no less) too much to resist. Trust me- once you have it, you'll find something to do with it.
 
I will renew mine, even if I never buy another C&R gun. I've saved many hundreds of $$$$ at Brownells and Midway since to them I am a FFL and get dealer pricing. One order at Brownells alone was $200 cheaper simply because of it! :)
 
Bound book question

What qualifies as a bound book? Can it be several pieces of paper stapled together and sequentially numbered?
 
A bound book can be purchased from several places, or you can make your own.

Surplusrifle.com has a .pdf file you can download. I keep mine in a 3 ring binder with the pages in those slide-in page protectors. I don't know if stapling would be acceptable, but a 3 ring binder (as long as you keep it orderly) has been acknowledged as acceptable by the ATF.
 
I have had my C&R License for a short time, but I think its great.

The application process is not hard, really nothing than a slightly more elaborate 4473 form. You send a copy to the chief LEO. Its easy.

As Technosavant said, any C&R elible firearm you acquire AFTER you get your license has to be entered into your book, even if you don't use your license to get it. BUT anything you had before you got the license should not be entered.

As far as the bound book is concerned, I bought a little bound journal from Staples, and then made a form using Microsoft Word with blanks for the appropriate info. I then printed this off on large sticky labels, and affixed them into the journal. It works pretty nice, and is organized. I use a page for each gun. Most of the forms I found online just didn't give enough room to write in all the info about the gun.

The discounts from Midway and Brownells will pay for the license easily.

I think the biggest mistake you could have with a C&R license is engaging in activities that the ATF would construe as "business". Its OK to sell a gun if it enhances your collection. That would be clearly legal according to ATF regulations. But if you are buying guns, and then reselling them to your friends and acquaintances just so they can get a good price, then you are going to be in trouble. When you renew, the ATF will ask you how many C&R guns you have disposed of, I bet if you say a large number, that is going to throw up red flags.
 
Thanks,

Are there any requirements as to the storage of the firearms? do you have to have a proper safe? any zoning restrictions etc?

Does the C&R licence have to be renewed? how often?

any technical tidbits that they require?

I really appriciate all the help guys. I think I might actually do this.
 
I am also fairly new to C&R . I wish I had done it years ago.

For some reason I just can't get over the fact that people actually mail guns to my house, makes me feel important somehow.

I have only been active for a few months and already have received seven handguns and six rifles

That's thirteen good quality fully functioning historical firearms for less than $2000 and three were $300 a piece.

I use my surplus to trade for other C&R guns.

For instance
I go to one vender and buy two or three of a certain gun
A friend goes to another and buys two or three of another type of gun
We work a trade on the guns
Legal and above board?

I have only done it once so far I traded a CZ52 for a K31 that the guy already had in his collection the day after I recieved the CZ52 that I had intended on keeping but I really wanted that Swiss and he really wanted the CZ
 
For storage and zoning you need to know your local laws, that's the only ATF requirement. Remember it's not a Dealer license, you aren't running a business, you are a private collector.

Renew every 3 years.
 
There are no safe storage requrements. You are not requred to have a safe, alarm system, or "lock down procedure". You could leave them laying all over the floor of your house, and it wouldn't make BATFE any difference. You only have state, and local regulations, (if any), to abide by regarding storage of firearms. The only regulation you have that you otherwise would not have is to report any weapons that are stolen or lost. Of course, that's a good idea anyway. The lisence needs to be renewed every 3 years. Here's a list of C&R elligible weapons:

http://www.cruffler.com/Curio&RelicList.exe

Here are the forms you'll need to fill out:

Form 7CR

Using this old form, they'll send you a "certification of citizenship" form. Fill that out, and return it to them with the form marked "incomplete". Your application will be processed.
 
Wow, I just took a look at the c&r list, I can get a mortor? certain sub machine guns?

wow, clearly state laws come into play on this, but I had no idea that the list was so extensive.

So If I got my C&R and I moved to a happy state.... the mind boggles.

might be good for more than just the cz52's and the odd russian mosin nagats.

I think this might be the single best thing I will have ever done for my firearm hobby to date.

wow.
 
Well, for things like the C&R eligible mortars, machine guns, and so forth, you still have to comply with all of the NFA rules - $200 tax stamp, BATF background check, etc. What the C&R gets you is that an out-of-state dealer can ship the C&R NFA item directly to you once the NFA paperwork is done.

The C&R was probably the most expensive $30 I've ever spent. On the other hand, between the savings at places like Brownell's, and the lack of dealer transfer fees, it's paid for itself many times over.
 
Bound Book.

I ordered my book from RK Enterprises and you would not beleive how nice they are!

You get the Collector record book, the personal Firearms book, a multi-weapon transaction record log and a list of Wholesalers too.

Not a bad price for how they look. Very professional looking.

Here is the link for them. They are still messing with the site but it does have their phone and address. They are real helpful on the phone.

Bound Book.
 
I'm a little confused on the NFA exempt C&R weapons.

I thought that the only legal regualtion that they had on automatic weapons was the tax stamp that they would issue (or not issue) on them

If the weapon is exempted from the tax stamp (which Is what I thought NFA exempted) then what legal ground do they use to deny or regulate these automatic weapons?

It doesn't matter for me, I live in Kali, so untill I move I can't get the really fun stuff.

but I just am a tad confused as to what is exempted if you still have to fill out the paperwork to apply for the tax stamp.
 
The transfer to the class 3 dealer in your state is exempted. The C&R NFA items can be transferred directly to you once the paperwork is completed. Without the C&R license the items would still have to go through a class 3 dealer in your state before going to you.
 
The ATF doesn't bother with looking at the books of an 03 FFL; the only reason they might is if you reported offloading a large amount of them when renewing, or if some guns used in crimes were traced to you. I have yet to hear of a C&R licensee having to make an appointment with the ATF to check out the book- they have not talked to me at all.
Click to expand...

It is not common but it does happen. They seem to select a C&R license holder now and then to audit.

A friend of mine built up his Luger collection with a C&R license (he has well in excess of 100 of them). A BATF employee (they are not agents and not LEOs) called and made an appointment with him to look over his books. She asked him to produce several firearms more or less at random from his book and checked that the serial number in the book matched the firearm. She even refused to touch the guns herself telling him she understood he might not want her fingerprints on his collectible firearms. She was there maybe 15 minutes and left. He has not heard anything from them since. This was within the last 3 or 4 years.
 
as long as you buy 2 c&r guns in the 3 year period, it pays for itself. Most ffls around here charge $20...so you actually save some money.
 
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