Call me stupid...(AR-10)

[MLC]

But, Why doesn't anyone make a lower receiver for 308 class rifles that accepts reasonably priced magazines?
The M1A mutation posted in another thread got me wondering why one would hack up a perfectly good rifle and try to make an M4 out of it?
Knights makes an M16/M4(SR 47) that accepts tip in AK mags, why not scale it up to accept G3/FAL/L1A1 mags?
An AR10 would be far more appropriate physically and aesthetically for a CQB carbine than an M1A.
I think that someone who made a 308/260/243(same parent case) receiver that takes $10 hi caps with an AR 10 upper and internals would stand to make some money.


Knights SR 47:

 

[Nightcrawler]

You AR freaks keep your hands off of our FAL mags.

 

[uglygun]

Many a company has looked into the FAL mag thing, Hesse and ASA both gave it a go and in the end(if I remember correct) they wound up modifying the mag to the extent that it couldn't be used in the original firearm for which it was intended. ATF has deemed that the mags converted for a new firearm must still retain functionality in the original firearm they were designed for.



Anyhow, owning an AR10 I can tell you the mods to the M14 tube are minor. It is TOTALLY possible for an AR10 owner to have one mag work for both the AR10 and the M1A, just change the follower and mill the slot in the left of the tube for the AR10 mag catch. This is not a total conversion to an AR10 mag as the AR10 mag has a milled slot down the back of the mag to allow the AR10 follower to trip the bolt catch. But if a person were to own an AR10 with partially modded mags it would be perfectly capable of working between the AR10 and M1A interchangably, only "problem" would be that the magazine catch would not work in either rifle but most consider that pretty minor.



The AR10 seems pretty expensive to get a decent cache of mags but it isn't too bad. Especially if you already have an M1A and a decent stash of mags, convert them carefully and it really isn't all that bad where essentially you gain the use of an additional rifle while never losing the use of the M1A.


There was a time when Armalite would fully mill the mag lug off the back of their AR10 conversion kit mag bodies but somewhere along the line they stopped and began leaving atleast 1/2 the lug on the tube so their mag bodies would retain functionality in M1A/M14s. Heck, the AR10 magazine well has a broached area for this lug included so you can slap an ordinary M14 magazine right into the magazine well. I've actually used unmodified M14 mags in my AR10 and they functioned fine so long as I held them in place. It's not possible to over insert an M14/AR10 mag as a "shelf" of sorts is in the upper receiver of the AR10 preventing over insertion of the magazine.

 

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

Knight is making guns for the military. No one buys a $2500 Knight rifle because they're looking to use cheap mags.

Armalite chose a decently priced mag when they designed their AR-10. You can still build up legal mags for that gun for as little as $30, which is fair.

But why didn't DPMS take advantage of the flood of HK or Fal mags? Dunno, but maybe they wanted to use an AR mag release.


Robinson is apparently working on a .308 rifle that uses FAL mags. Not holding my breath, but there you go.

 

[gun-fucious]

i would bet most manufacturers are gonna wait till september 14, 2004 before investing in modifing any more high caps

 

[TechBrute]

No one buys a $2500 Knight rifle because they're looking to use cheap mags.

No, but people do buy $2500 rifles because they are high quality, and if the rifles take cheap mags, so much the better.

 

[Kaylee]

The M1A mutation posted in another thread got me wondering why one would hack up a perfectly good rifle and try to make an M4 out of it?

Because the military has stores of M14s already on the rack, and better to hack 'em into something useful for military use (or the LE agencies they sell 'em to) than send 'em to the chopper? Sure, ODCMPing them would be the ideal solution, but these days ya take what you can get.

I think the problem with "why not scale it up" is because of market distortions caused by all these dang gun laws. Right now M14 mags are spendy and FAL and G3 mags are relatively cheap. But as soon as some nitwit signs another executive order, the import lines for those FAL and G3 mags can be cut with the stroke of a pen. Give it a bit, and soon they're as spendy (or more so) than M14 mags. (which were quite cheap themselves at one point, or so I hear tell)

Now, as a manufacturer, how could I plan for that situation? Say I spend a year and tens of thousands of dollars tooling up for a new reciever to take advantage of "cheap mags"... and a month before I hit market some nitwit shoots up his workplace with a CETME and said order is signed? Who's going to buy my product? Nobody.. not on the "can use cheap mags" selling proposition anyway. So I'm out that time and tooling cost. Flush..........


I think when dealing with weapons manufacturing the idea has to be "fill a physical need" rather than "take advantage of a (likely temporary) market condition." The tool up time and expense make doing so a pretty dicey gamble.

-K