Can a black powder firearm be used for home defense?

[happybrew]

home defense

Massnee, I'm impressed that you wish to comply with the law, as screwy as that law is. That is truly good citizenship. I recently purchased a black powder revolver. I have six children with the seventh on the way, and affordability was a big issue. Next was the fact that it is probably too complicated for a child to figure out in the unlikely event that they could get their hands on it. I keep it dismantled when not in possession, and locked up. It can be retrieved and assembled in about 20 seconds if the need arises.

Some would call that an excessive amount of time, but that is the compromise I personally choose between child safety and bad guy suppression. My younger children get into everything, are intensely busy and curious, and if you take your eyes off them for five seconds, nothing is safe. It would only be a matter of time before they got ahold it. The alternative would be to break the child abuse laws and beat their intelligence and curiousity out of them. Really. And that's not going to happen.

I think you have made an outstanding choice. I applaud your adherence to laws that are difficult to bear and discriminatory in nature. That is the mark of a true citizen, in the democratic ideal. Civil disobedience has its place, but not if there can be a realistic work-around like you have found, at least until better laws can be put in place. That is what separates us from countries where corruption and disregard for the law is the norm, which is much of the world. You have my admiration.

happybrew

 

[pohill]

massnee, is that law preventing your wife access to your firearms a city, state or federal law? On this NRA website, it lists and compares the laws from all the states. Once I figured out how to read the chart, it was pretty interesting.
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=74

Amazingly, there are some states more restrictive than MA, and then some cities take it further than state and federal laws.

Look at #20: (off topic a little)
Arkansas prohibits carrying a firearm "with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person." Tennessee prohibits carrying "with the intent to go armed." Vermont prohibits carrying a firearm "with the intent or purpose of injuring another." In VT, is self defense considered as an "intent or purpose of injuring another?" If you carry a gun in Arkansas for self defense, are you violating the clause "with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person."

I know it's expensive and time consuming for the resident alien FID (safety course, $100 application fee, annual fee of $100) but that FID would provide you and your wife with some legal protection at least, and some options.

 

[pohill]

here's one for ya...

I just called and asked about my wife's access to my handguns in my house...
My wife, a citizen, does not have a LTC or FID card. If she were to use one of my legally owned handguns in my own house, even for self defense, she COULD be prosecuted for not having a permit and handling a gun, AND I could be prosecuted for allowing an unlicensed person to have access to a handgun. I have to keep the guns locked and secured from my wife in her own home. Friggin' WOW...
Interestingly, when I was a cop, I did not need any type of permit to own a firearm, but the moment I stopped being a cop, if I didn't have a LTC, I was "illegal" in regards to those firearms.

 

[Boom-stick]

If you find yourself really restricted to BP think about a mini revolver as well I've got an FA original but I believe the NAA companionhttp://www.naaminis.com/naac&b.html copy of it ain't to shabby....

And for HD, there's nothing quite like a nose spray from hell!!

 

[drdirk]

besides focusing on the legality of owning or using a BP revolver, you need to think of the legality of your wife having or using black powder or substitute and percussion caps!!!

It could very well be that a black powder revolver is legal to own and use. But, how do you load it LEGALLY!!!??? Can you buy back powder in without a license for home defense?

To me, the use of a defensive gun, weather black powder or not is a two part question. Can I have the gun AND can I have the ammo??

 

[massnee]

Thank you again for all your input. Massachusetts’s laws were never intended to make sense. However, it does appear that it is legal for my wife to have access to a loaded BP firearm, as long as she does not remove the firearm from the house. Her access is defined by her having the key to the locked case the pistol is stored in.

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Range report
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WOW...what a fun handgun to shoot! I loaded 30g of pyrodex-p with Hornady .454 lead balls. Shooting at about 25ft I was surprised by the accuracy. Two of my five shots actually touched each other (almost the same hole). There was almost no recoil. In my excitement to shoot the pistol I forgot to put hearing protection on...my ears did not even ring.

I would like to try to pack some more powder in there...would you recommend it? (Please also leave your billing info so I can call you from the hospital )

 

[dwave]

massnee, glad you like your new gun. I will suggest using .457 round balls. I found that I get better accuracy using them in my 1858 rem. Also I have found that 777 shoots well in my 1858 and cleans up easy. I shoot 30 gr. of it, and it does have more of a punch. Loads are reduced by 15%.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Dwave,

You can shoot 30 gr of 777 in an 44 cal 1858 Remington? The reason I ask is I have one but have not shot it yet. I went to the Hodgdon website and from what I could gather 25 gr was about the max or did I read it wrong? I have everything including the 777 in hand, I just need the time to go shoot it.

 

[dwave]

I never read the website on it, but it says to reduce loads by 15%. My manual says 35 gr as the max load in the revolver if I remember right (even if I don't I use 35 anyways . For safty follow your manual. Course do what you want, I won't be responsible. ) , so 35 x .15 = 5.25. Thats how I got the 30 gr. max.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Cabelas has a .22 blackpowder revolver. ITs small and concealable

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Gaucho Gringo "You can shoot 30 gr of 777 in an 44 cal 1858 Remington?"
You can if you like 30gr 777 ffg + 15%= 34.5gr by volume of Goex BP. I'd stay away from fffg as it is ever more potent.
I don't use 777 anymore as a 28gr load sheared the locating pins off on my 1860 Pietta. 28gr777ffg +15%= 32.2gr BP
777 ffg never hurt my 1858 Rems though...but I'm still back to Black Powder only.

 

[gmatov]

The first thing some of you guys, like MASSNET, should consider is if you would rather be carried by 6 or tried by 12.

IE, if you NEED protection, and we all do, do you say well, the LAW says,,,,so we can't do it.

My kids live in the country. The boy's dad always had and shot pistols off the back deck at his house. The kids refuse to have a firing weapon in the house, depend on Guardian Protective. A SIGN, f'r Chri'sake.

Grab the damned C&B'er and blast away if you are attacked. Worry about the legalities after you emerge alive.

Cheers,

George

 

[sundance44s]

Sundance44s

Staying alive has my vote every time ! Some of our Laws written in this country are to keep honest people honest ... The bad guys don`t read so well ...and surely aren`t honest ..and what could have been will never be .

 

[bigbore442001]

Massnee:

I have been a lifelong Massachusetts resident who is somewhat familiar with the state's odd gun laws.

You do not need a License to Carry( class A,B,C or D) for a black powder long arm such as a shotgun or rifle. You do need one to buy the components.

I know a number of people who had lost their LTC's several years back when then State Senator Cheryl Jacques added more reasons for LTC ( License to Carry) revokations. Some friends have had more than two or three DWI's and guess what. Their LTC is now history. They have gone into black powder to hunt. When it comes to components such as powder, caps and bullets, they go over to nearby Rhode Island and buy it over the counter.

You do need an LTC for a black powder handgun though. I know it is in the home but you can still have a problem if there is an incident. I don't know of any case in which someone was prosecuted for a home invasion shooting that hasn't had the proper license but if Deval Patrick gets it, that may very well change.

I will have to explore this in greater detail. The problem with Massachusetts laws is that there are so many contradictions. You almost have to be a lawyer to understand all of them.

 

[pohill]

From what I've learned, you need at least an FID card to buy and possess powder and caps, and a LTC only if you conceal a BP revolver or convert it to cartridge. I'm pretty sure you can own the BP revolver in your home without an FID or LTC if you just plan to display it as an antique (which also means you can receive a BP revolver without powder or caps though the mail without an FID card).

 

[dwave]

Smokin_gun, that sucks about your gun, crazy too. I don't worry too much about the Remington because it is a stronger design than the colts. I do shoot fffg myself and have never had a problem using 30 gr of it in my revolver. I don't shoot it in my colt navy because it doesn't shoot well in it anyways. I use American Pioneer Powder or BP in it. Using APP I don't have to worry about much in my colt, that stuff is weak compaired to all the other powders, but it shoots with decent accuracy in it.

 

[Plastic Cowboy]

By powder measure I fill the chambers on my Pietta 58 Remington with 45 grains of 777 and mash a .454 ball down on top. I have shot 600 rounds this way with no problems or signs of stress in the frame. These things are pretty well built.
You may not want to do this much with a colt or brass framed Remmie though because the stress will probably distort the frame over time.

(by the way--- very impressive roar and fireball)

You can hit a bad guy at 50 yards with this-- up close it will drop him in his tracks god forbid you ever had to!!

I dug one of the roundballs out of the dirt once and it had expanded to twice its original size- thats why these guns are so lethal at close range.

 

[countertop]

First, move out of Taxachuessets. Its probably the best thing you could ever do for you and your wife.

Second, I seem to recall an article in Guns and Ammo within the last couple of months on this precise subject. might want to try and dig it up. It was at least from this summer - may have been the august or september issue.

 

[pohill]

Gotta love that solution - just move out of Massachusetts.
Because of gun laws? I have all the guns I want. And go where? Any suggestions?
Gotta love it...

 

[Third_Rail]

I didn't like living in MA, but I didn't leave just because of the gun laws....

 

[pohill]

Look what's around MA - RI, CT, NY...all very restrictive as far as gun laws. VT is nice...to visit. NH is my first choice, but you buy property in NH, especially up north, and you're stuck with it. You can still buy a house in Berlin, NH (for example) for under $100,000 but you'll never sell it. I lived in Utah for awhile and couldn't wait to leave, but it's one of my first choices for a vacation. No, these gun laws have to change, somehow. People have to get educated, but as long as they keep reading papers like The Boston Globe it's gonna be tough.

 

[Third_Rail]

That's certainly true!

 

[sjohns]

Things would have to get really bad for common citizens in order for the gun laws to be vacated.

It would probably be more of a "Realease the KraKon!" kinda thing.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Many a outlaw, soldier, and indian have been put in the ground by an old BP gun. They are just as deadly today as they were 150 years ago. I would leave it loaded for long periods of time however. Try reloading every week or so. And yes I would not like to be the recipiant of a .50cal lead ball.

 

[drdirk]

About black powder and reliability: I had a pretty discouraging experiement. Last year I loaded my small BP companion revolver with Pyrodex, put on cap and carefully sealed the chambers with borebutter. My plan was to carry it concealed for a while to see if it would still work. So I started putting it in my pocket and kept it on me for about 3 weeks or so. Took it to the range and tried shooting. Guess what, NOTHING! Not one would go off! Now mind you this was in the Texas / Florida fall / winter. Kind of wet/ humid but the powder was dry.

I may try this with another powder or sub again but sure would have been embarrasing if I had actually needed it