Steve499
Member
drdirk, try it again but follow my directions at the top of page 2 on this thread. Carry it another 3 weeks and let us know what happened.
Steve
Steve
Can a black powder firearm be used for home defense?
- Thread starter massnee
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Low Key
Member
Next time try sealing around the cap itself with beeswax instead of bore butter. Moisture may have worked itself into the percussion cap.
Thanks guys, will try again according to the instructions. Looks like the weak part were the caps since nothing went off. Since these are "long term" experiments feedback will be a while 
On a related note, sometimes I load it with 1gr of bullseye. Works great in the small bp. If interested, there is a discussion in another thread.
Happy shooting to all!
On a related note, sometimes I load it with 1gr of bullseye. Works great in the small bp. If interested, there is a discussion in another thread.
Happy shooting to all!
Franco2shoot
Member
home defense
I would like to shift the responses a little from the legal aspects more towards accuracy/threat/lethality/intimidation factor. I have both Colt, Remington, and a 1911 .45 and while I used to feel the 1911 posed the best response to someone rattling around downstairs, I have recently started to re-think. My thinking is changing mostly due to the speed with which I can respond to any threat. For the 1911 I need to pull down the case, fidget with the trigger lock key in the dark, then pull the slide back and slam in a magazine that has 6 hydra shock and two full metal jackets. By contrast, I can pull down the presentation case, Unlock (a bigger easier key) drop the rammer, slide in a R&D cylinder loaded with 6 Long Colt .45's and I'm good to go. All that iron on the Remmy has a pretty good intimidation factor. The Plus is that I have a hunk of iron that can be used fairly defensively. Now from the home defense position, anyone down stairs can steal as much as they can haul out the front door before the Police show up, however coming up the stairs to where my wife and kids are they will be taking some lead back down if they continue up after I tell them to halt. My local Police officer said to be sure and put the 12" turkey carving knife in his hand before calling. I think this is pretty much the way I have instructed my wife, but for her, I want the weapon to be my 12 guage, which she doesn't have to aim and is fairly easy to drop two in, point and shoot under the same circumstances.
I think you need to evaluate the whole defensive nature of your individual layout, and then, just like a practice Family Fire Drill, do a Family defense drill.
One final note... About 20 years ago, we were living in a darkly lit surburban area in Maryland. Two men awoke me in the middle of the night when they used a long screwdriver to pop open the back door of a screened in back porch. I reached under the bed pulled the 12 guage Baretta out and went to the laundry room/kitchen entrance about 12 feet from the back door. I crouched alongside the washer dryer, leveled the gun and called out while flippin on the back porch light.. As soon as they saw the barrels, they dropped the screwdriver and ran, and a few minutes later the police rolled up. I can tell you from my personal experience that you couldn't have pounded a tooth pick up my back side with a sledge hammer I was so scared, but I'm pretty sure both barrels would have gone off had they charged me. I don't think anyone knows how they will react under threatening circumstances.
As for the two would be assailants, they were not found that night, but about 3 weeks later in a small tavern, just down the street two guys of the same description were involved in a ruckus where they shot a waitress(not fatally) while trying to rob the place, both were on drugs at the time. They were arrested in the attempted hold up and eventually tried and convicted.
KKKKFL
I would like to shift the responses a little from the legal aspects more towards accuracy/threat/lethality/intimidation factor. I have both Colt, Remington, and a 1911 .45 and while I used to feel the 1911 posed the best response to someone rattling around downstairs, I have recently started to re-think. My thinking is changing mostly due to the speed with which I can respond to any threat. For the 1911 I need to pull down the case, fidget with the trigger lock key in the dark, then pull the slide back and slam in a magazine that has 6 hydra shock and two full metal jackets. By contrast, I can pull down the presentation case, Unlock (a bigger easier key) drop the rammer, slide in a R&D cylinder loaded with 6 Long Colt .45's and I'm good to go. All that iron on the Remmy has a pretty good intimidation factor. The Plus is that I have a hunk of iron that can be used fairly defensively. Now from the home defense position, anyone down stairs can steal as much as they can haul out the front door before the Police show up, however coming up the stairs to where my wife and kids are they will be taking some lead back down if they continue up after I tell them to halt. My local Police officer said to be sure and put the 12" turkey carving knife in his hand before calling. I think this is pretty much the way I have instructed my wife, but for her, I want the weapon to be my 12 guage, which she doesn't have to aim and is fairly easy to drop two in, point and shoot under the same circumstances.
I think you need to evaluate the whole defensive nature of your individual layout, and then, just like a practice Family Fire Drill, do a Family defense drill.
One final note... About 20 years ago, we were living in a darkly lit surburban area in Maryland. Two men awoke me in the middle of the night when they used a long screwdriver to pop open the back door of a screened in back porch. I reached under the bed pulled the 12 guage Baretta out and went to the laundry room/kitchen entrance about 12 feet from the back door. I crouched alongside the washer dryer, leveled the gun and called out while flippin on the back porch light.. As soon as they saw the barrels, they dropped the screwdriver and ran, and a few minutes later the police rolled up. I can tell you from my personal experience that you couldn't have pounded a tooth pick up my back side with a sledge hammer I was so scared, but I'm pretty sure both barrels would have gone off had they charged me. I don't think anyone knows how they will react under threatening circumstances.
As for the two would be assailants, they were not found that night, but about 3 weeks later in a small tavern, just down the street two guys of the same description were involved in a ruckus where they shot a waitress(not fatally) while trying to rob the place, both were on drugs at the time. They were arrested in the attempted hold up and eventually tried and convicted.
KKKKFL
Jackal
Member
Yes. But then again, so can a rock or 2x4.
Dirk, there are tiny, stretchy, silicone bands that go over the caps to seal them watertight for hunting. I bought a bag of them years ago, I believe from Cabelas. You might check there anyway. They were cheap and if they will fit a revolver cylinder, would seal the ignition end well. The ball end is easy to seal, but the caps are harder. I haven't tried them on a revolver, but I used them a couple times on my sidelocks just to see if they'd work.
Warren
Member
Please do NOT do this. Ever.
If you need to defend yourself in your home or anywhere and you end up killing someone do NOT alter the crime scene. Leave it like it happened, with the exception of tending to wounded friendlies.
Do not shoot someone outside and drag them inside.
Do not leave the scene. Unless there are safety concerns.
Do not hide the weapon.
Do not lie to investegators about how things went down. Instead clam up and get a lawyer.
If it happens you knew the dead person, don't lie about it. Instead clam up and get a lawyer.
Just get a lawyer, regardless.
You must have all the credibilty you can muster. If you start messing with things to make it look better for you, you will instead make it a LOT worse for you. If a DA can point at you and call you a liar or someone who disturbed a crime scene how will that play with a jury?
Warren
Member
Oh, great thread BTW.
One day I'm going to get a BP revo.
Having a bunch of these types of threads around is a great resource.
Who makes a good LeMat? And doesn't that shorty shotgun run afoul of certain laws?
One day I'm going to get a BP revo.
Having a bunch of these types of threads around is a great resource.
Who makes a good LeMat? And doesn't that shorty shotgun run afoul of certain laws?
Tommygunn
Member
As far as I know the only company that makes a Le Mat is Pietta. Different companies might distribute it in America, though. I have one I got from Navy Arms years ago; it's very nicely made, though I find it isn't as ergonomic to load as the Colts and Remmingtons.
Low Key
Member
Deleted...misunderstood context in the post I was replying to
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Franco2shoot
Member
clarification
I just want to reiterate, how totally scared I was. I could not give an accurate description of their faces, but could only recall their approximate height in the doorway. Not too surprising since it was dark until I flipped the light switch on and then I suppose I blinked, and they saw the double barrels and were gone in an instant.
The troubling memory for me was the time it took for local police to show up, and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It just seemed an eternity. Its the same if you are ever in a car accident. Its like you are trapped in slow motion and seconds seem like minutes. I have friends that think if they hear someone breaking in that the good guys will arrive in a split second and take care of them. That's not been my experience.
I suppose your advice is sound, but I know clear thinking when under duress is not commonplace, least it wasn't for me, wasn't for Wild Bill either if historical accounts are correct in his shooting of his deputy..(saw that last nite and couldn't pass up including it)
KKKKFL
I just want to reiterate, how totally scared I was. I could not give an accurate description of their faces, but could only recall their approximate height in the doorway. Not too surprising since it was dark until I flipped the light switch on and then I suppose I blinked, and they saw the double barrels and were gone in an instant.
The troubling memory for me was the time it took for local police to show up, and I'm not necessarily blaming them. It just seemed an eternity. Its the same if you are ever in a car accident. Its like you are trapped in slow motion and seconds seem like minutes. I have friends that think if they hear someone breaking in that the good guys will arrive in a split second and take care of them. That's not been my experience.
I suppose your advice is sound, but I know clear thinking when under duress is not commonplace, least it wasn't for me, wasn't for Wild Bill either if historical accounts are correct in his shooting of his deputy..(saw that last nite and couldn't pass up including it)
KKKKFL
Tommygunn
Member
Low Key said:
Sorry, that's BS. It certainly IS a crime scene. If the guy you just shot didn't commit a crime, why did you shoot him? If HE didn't commit a crime, YOU COMMITED A CRIME when you shot him! The police will absolutly consider it a crime scene. Even if it is blatantly painfully absolutly obvious to them that you were the victim and were defending yourself, then the crime they're investigating is a crime against you.
And sorry, this applies everywhere, in your home, or in public.
Simply because self defense is not a crime doesn't mean a crime hasn't been commited. Just not by "you."
Low Key
Member
tommygun...
good point, and you're right...i took the term crime scene the wrong way as if it was referring to self defense. I read through that post too quickly...
good point, and you're right...i took the term crime scene the wrong way as if it was referring to self defense. I read through that post too quickly...
I left my BP revolver loaded for about a month and a half. I carried it twice while hunting. I pulled out the cylinder and put it all in a safe during the day when I went to work, put it in my dresser at night.
Today after hunting, I decided to empty it. The results were discouraging. If I had to rely on it to save my family, we would be dead. Each cap took two hits to fire, ignition was delayed and incomplete on the caps and delayed on the powder. One cap failed to discharge at all. I had to pry four of the spent caps off the nipples when normally they fall off on their own. The cap that failed to discharge had seriously degraded when I pulled it off, with the primer crumbling and coming out of the cap. They were #10 CCI caps. The Pyrodex seemed fine. I will try this again, only this time I will try changing out the caps weekly, as condensation from temperature variation and humidity seems to have affected them.
happybrew
Today after hunting, I decided to empty it. The results were discouraging. If I had to rely on it to save my family, we would be dead. Each cap took two hits to fire, ignition was delayed and incomplete on the caps and delayed on the powder. One cap failed to discharge at all. I had to pry four of the spent caps off the nipples when normally they fall off on their own. The cap that failed to discharge had seriously degraded when I pulled it off, with the primer crumbling and coming out of the cap. They were #10 CCI caps. The Pyrodex seemed fine. I will try this again, only this time I will try changing out the caps weekly, as condensation from temperature variation and humidity seems to have affected them.
happybrew
I have a report to give...
I loaded my revolver with five rounds using butter flavored crisco as a sealer (that is all I had) and about 33 grains of pyrodex. I placed the revolver in a locked hard plastic case with a foam interior (I even threw pennies in with it thinking it might keep humidity down). 34 days later I took the handgun to the range. It fired flawlessly!
I really enjoy shooting the revolver. I probably will not have another opportunity to let the pistol sit for so long. My normal practice is to shoot it ever two weeks.
I loaded my revolver with five rounds using butter flavored crisco as a sealer (that is all I had) and about 33 grains of pyrodex. I placed the revolver in a locked hard plastic case with a foam interior (I even threw pennies in with it thinking it might keep humidity down). 34 days later I took the handgun to the range. It fired flawlessly!
I really enjoy shooting the revolver. I probably will not have another opportunity to let the pistol sit for so long. My normal practice is to shoot it ever two weeks.
I left my C&B loaded for two weeks. Rather than fire it, though, I unloaded it manually. I was curious whether there were any observable changes to the components. One of the percussion caps looked different than when I had loaded it, slightly discolored like it had absorbed moisture. The others were fine. I removed the nipples and pushed the bullets out with a nail. The pyrodex had compressed together, and came out in the shape of the cylinder. From what I have read about the pyrodex pellets, they have a bit of black powder on them in order to help them ignite. Next, I hit the caps with a hammer on the garage floor. They required persistent pounding to set them off.
I live in a wet climate. It appears this may be affecting the caps and the powder. I re-loaded my revolver and left it for two weeks with the same routine. It stays in the bedroom, in a safe during the day, and in the dresser at night. I pulled the caps off again, and they all seemed fine. I anticipate the Pyrodex will be compressed together again. I'll see if it fires.
happybrew
I live in a wet climate. It appears this may be affecting the caps and the powder. I re-loaded my revolver and left it for two weeks with the same routine. It stays in the bedroom, in a safe during the day, and in the dresser at night. I pulled the caps off again, and they all seemed fine. I anticipate the Pyrodex will be compressed together again. I'll see if it fires.
happybrew
Well, it turns out it's definitely the percussion caps. It made no difference whether the revolver was sitting there two weeks or was just loaded. One out of every three caps needed two strikes to go off. This is a serious reliability issue if I'm going to use it for home defense. A fresh can of caps goes off every time. After it has been open a while, reliability goes out the window.
happybrew
happybrew
Low Key
Member
Simple low tech solution...
stick the whole gun...loaded up and ready to go...into a large ziplock freezer bag and mash out most of the air when you seal the bag. Very little moisture is left in there to mess up your caps. Try that for two weeks, test fire and give us the results.
Oh and keep your caps in another ziplock bag full time to keep them out of the humid air.
stick the whole gun...loaded up and ready to go...into a large ziplock freezer bag and mash out most of the air when you seal the bag. Very little moisture is left in there to mess up your caps. Try that for two weeks, test fire and give us the results.
Oh and keep your caps in another ziplock bag full time to keep them out of the humid air.
Warren
Member
Would a dessicant pack in the bag help out?
No way!
I knew a guy who did that to his 1911 hoping he wouldn't have to clean it when he came in from a field training exercise back during my time in the National Guard. He came back with a very rusty weapon. I don't care to repeat his mistake. It's gotta be able to breathe.
I think I need to get ahold of some better caps. A dessicant in the can with the caps would be a good idea. If that doesn't fix it, perhaps an upgrade on the nipples and perhaps the main spring for the hammer.
happybrew
I knew a guy who did that to his 1911 hoping he wouldn't have to clean it when he came in from a field training exercise back during my time in the National Guard. He came back with a very rusty weapon. I don't care to repeat his mistake. It's gotta be able to breathe.
I think I need to get ahold of some better caps. A dessicant in the can with the caps would be a good idea. If that doesn't fix it, perhaps an upgrade on the nipples and perhaps the main spring for the hammer.
happybrew
dwave
Member
I just left my 51 colt loaded for 3 weeks and all cylinders fired with no problems at all. I had it loaded with 20 grs 777 and #10 CCIs.
sundance44s
Member
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Sundance44s
Thought i`d share this ... i use only remington caps ...and i drop a a few caps around the table where i load ... one day for poping caps on the oily cylinder ..i picked up some caps that had been out in the weather for a month or so ..through rain ..then heat .. and damp ... couldn`t beleive it they all poped good as new .
Thought i`d share this ... i use only remington caps ...and i drop a a few caps around the table where i load ... one day for poping caps on the oily cylinder ..i picked up some caps that had been out in the weather for a month or so ..through rain ..then heat .. and damp ... couldn`t beleive it they all poped good as new .
Cincinnati Slim
Member
Cap Reliability
Howdy All,
Yes indeed, the caps are the weak link here.
I have had much better results with Remington caps versus CCI.
With Thunder Ridge Muzzloading stainless nipples and Reminton #11 caps
I get very reliable ignition with either Tripple Seven or real black powder.
If the caps are seated properly I get 99.9 % first strike ignition. The rare misfires ALWAYS go off on the second strike. The CCI caps are louder and hotter than the Remingtons but not as reliable or consistent. I use CCI caps for fast draw practice and to clean out oily chambers. The CCI cap fragments are also more prone to cause jams.
I'd like to try some of the European brands of caps. I have heard that they are more like authentic "old-time" caps from pre 1899 days. Can't find 'em locally but welcome anyone with experiances to share. So far the Remington #11s from my local Bass Pro Shop works fine.
Decided to test this so I've loaded up a clean dry spare cylinder and put 'er in a capped jar with a dessicant pack. I'll wait three or four weeks and try it out at range.
I'll let y'all know then...
Slim
Howdy All,
Yes indeed, the caps are the weak link here.
I have had much better results with Remington caps versus CCI.
With Thunder Ridge Muzzloading stainless nipples and Reminton #11 caps
I get very reliable ignition with either Tripple Seven or real black powder.
If the caps are seated properly I get 99.9 % first strike ignition. The rare misfires ALWAYS go off on the second strike. The CCI caps are louder and hotter than the Remingtons but not as reliable or consistent. I use CCI caps for fast draw practice and to clean out oily chambers. The CCI cap fragments are also more prone to cause jams.
I'd like to try some of the European brands of caps. I have heard that they are more like authentic "old-time" caps from pre 1899 days. Can't find 'em locally but welcome anyone with experiances to share. So far the Remington #11s from my local Bass Pro Shop works fine.
Decided to test this so I've loaded up a clean dry spare cylinder and put 'er in a capped jar with a dessicant pack. I'll wait three or four weeks and try it out at range.
I'll let y'all know then...
Slim
dwave
Member
I like the Remmy caps myself, but believe it or not, I can't get them in this area, nobody around here sells them consistently. One of the local shops gets them every now and then leaving me stuck with CCIs.
sundance44s
Member
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Sundance44s
Same here only one store sells the remington caps ..Bass Pro ..and its a 2 hour there and back ride for me ...i buy 2 cases at a time when i make the trip ...have a new Sportsman warehouse real close to me but they say they won`t sell remington caps ...some problem they had years ago with them ...
I couldn`t even get them to special order them for ,me.
Same here only one store sells the remington caps ..Bass Pro ..and its a 2 hour there and back ride for me ...i buy 2 cases at a time when i make the trip ...have a new Sportsman warehouse real close to me but they say they won`t sell remington caps ...some problem they had years ago with them ...
I couldn`t even get them to special order them for ,me.
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