evtSmtx
Member
to $150?
if this is the wrong forum, steer me where I should have posted.
thanks
if this is the wrong forum, steer me where I should have posted.
thanks
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can anybody 'splain to a newbie why ar stripped lower vary from $50
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Each manufacturer that makes one -- or re-brander that sells "their" lower, made by one of the actual manufacturers -- has a supply, manufacturing, and distribution chain (right down to the retailing FFL) that costs them a certain amount per piece sold. That is influenced by many things you don't care about as a consumer, and maybe a few you might.
So that gives them a starting point. They've got to cover their costs. Their costs might be a buck or five more or less than the next maker.
Then there's name recognition/branding. Some names command more money because "everybody knows" they're super duper quality. (Whether they're any better than another brand is not really important to this.)
That covers all the "mil spec" standard lowers.
Then you can add whatever cost you want for special features. Things like billet production rather than forging, which isn't as good but people think it is so they'll pay more. Or semi-custom markings and logos, oddball side-charging systems, or custom machining like these:
The sky can be the limit when you get off the same-old pattern.
So that gives them a starting point. They've got to cover their costs. Their costs might be a buck or five more or less than the next maker.
Then there's name recognition/branding. Some names command more money because "everybody knows" they're super duper quality. (Whether they're any better than another brand is not really important to this.)
That covers all the "mil spec" standard lowers.
Then you can add whatever cost you want for special features. Things like billet production rather than forging, which isn't as good but people think it is so they'll pay more. Or semi-custom markings and logos, oddball side-charging systems, or custom machining like these:
The sky can be the limit when you get off the same-old pattern.
Candyman87
Member
If we're strictly talking about aluminum receivers, there are different alloys. And some are milled from a single piece of billet (more expensive, but stronger) or forged and milled (less expensive, but not quite as strong). Then there's brand recognition... some brands simply bring a premium.
Then there's other materials like polymer, which can be found inexpensive as well.
A good reference can be found here: http://thearguys.com/ar-facts/lowereceiver/
Then there's other materials like polymer, which can be found inexpensive as well.
A good reference can be found here: http://thearguys.com/ar-facts/lowereceiver/
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, that's backward. There's no reason for a billet receiver to be stronger than forged UNLESS you're adding a lot of thickness/weight to strengthen it. Which is easier to do when you're cutting a few proprietary pieces out of billets instead of making forging dies to produce tens of thousands.
https://www.80-lower.com/ar-lower-receivers-cast-vs-billet-vs-forged-aluminum/
MachIVshooter
Member
If you're comparing forged lowers, the difference in price is roll mark.
Billets are all over the map, and with them you are also looking at varying features and aesthetics. Billet is universally more expensive because they require a great deal more machining, not because they are functionally superior.
But for a VERY few exceptions, all forged or billet are 7075-T6 aluminum. There have been a couple of cast and 6061 options, but they scarcely deserve mention.
The polymer lowers and magnesium alloy units from Mag Tactical are a whole 'nother animal, don't get the impression the OP is asking about them.
Billet is not any stronger, except in cases where there's a lot more material left. Where aluminum is concerned, pound for pound, there is no practical difference in properties between forged or billet pieces. If we were talking steel, the forged piece would be stronger, but aluminum doesn't realize the same benefits of grain structure alignment.
Billets are all over the map, and with them you are also looking at varying features and aesthetics. Billet is universally more expensive because they require a great deal more machining, not because they are functionally superior.
But for a VERY few exceptions, all forged or billet are 7075-T6 aluminum. There have been a couple of cast and 6061 options, but they scarcely deserve mention.
The polymer lowers and magnesium alloy units from Mag Tactical are a whole 'nother animal, don't get the impression the OP is asking about them.
Billet is not any stronger, except in cases where there's a lot more material left. Where aluminum is concerned, pound for pound, there is no practical difference in properties between forged or billet pieces. If we were talking steel, the forged piece would be stronger, but aluminum doesn't realize the same benefits of grain structure alignment.
90% of the time i think higher priced stuff is justified due to differentiation in features, quality, attention to detail etc. but imho your run of the mill stripped AR lowers are in the 10% where it's really just protecting a brand name.
now there are some differences. e.g. some come with a speed chute style mag well opening, or threaded holes with set screws to capture springs so they don't shoot across the room, or a bumper that acts like a built-in accuwedge that you can adjust to desired tension. then there are the bigger obvious features like ambi controls and built in flush cups and stuff.
now there are some differences. e.g. some come with a speed chute style mag well opening, or threaded holes with set screws to capture springs so they don't shoot across the room, or a bumper that acts like a built-in accuwedge that you can adjust to desired tension. then there are the bigger obvious features like ambi controls and built in flush cups and stuff.
In trying to learn about them, that's what seems to be a recurring theme. Many lower priced units have more folks saying they've had little troubles with things fitting, lining up properly, mating with other parts well. Some do a nice job of cleaning up mold flashing, others don't.
When many see "they came from the same forgers as X fantastic brand but cost way less", they equate that with "they are all finished identically". No. They aren't.
If a cheaper one works good, great. If it doesn't, you found out that the QC isn't the same. It isn't that all cheaper units (individual parts) are going to have problems, but in the bigger picture, more people seem to have those little problems than with higher priced and presumably a bit better QC and machined and finished pieces. Another aspect is CS. Some companies are great with CS if theres a problem, some may not be as great.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
No, they aren't. But you can't use price to figure out which will be which. At least not with any consistency.
Marketing and brand recognition. My wife buys $500 purses. Its not because they hold her tampons any better than $50 purses. Its to show off to the other girls in the office. Men buy expensive receivers because they think they are getting a better receiver with a certain roll mark but in reality a $40 Anderson receiver is functionally identical to a $200 Noveske receiver. Its the wow factor and perception of better quality whether the reality of better quality is there or not.
Human nature is a quagmire.
Human nature is a quagmire.
I have built around two dozen AR's. I use almost exclusively PSA or on the rare occasion an Anderson receiver. These typically sell in the $50 or less range. So far I have had zero (0) problems with the fit and finish of either one. That even includes the blems I buy as I have to look very hard to find any imperfection.
I also have two Colt AR15's and quite frankly, except for the receiver markings, I see no difference between them and the less expensive receivers. I also have a couple of retro rifles built using NDS receivers and while they are finished to a higher standard than less expensive receivers, their main attraction is that they are made to A1 specs and NDS is a very low volume manufacturer.
I also have two Colt AR15's and quite frankly, except for the receiver markings, I see no difference between them and the less expensive receivers. I also have a couple of retro rifles built using NDS receivers and while they are finished to a higher standard than less expensive receivers, their main attraction is that they are made to A1 specs and NDS is a very low volume manufacturer.
evtSmtx
Member
Thanks a lot y'all especially to candyman for that link
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dirtengineer
Member
Mostly marketing.
My years in aviation says otherwise. There are parts that must be made from forgings so they have the grain flow to do the job
Jesse H
Member
I've heard of enough issues with Anderson lowers that I'd spend a bit more for something that's got less issues. Coworker had a build using an Anderson lower with a quality LPK and he's got fitment issues with Pmags and the mag release.
lysanderxiii
Member
And quality control.
Having a guy/gal spend 3 minutes looking over an object adds to the cost.
Having a guy/gal spend 3 minutes looking over an object adds to the cost.
MachIVshooter
Member
Again, almost no practical difference with 7075. One may exceed the other very slightly in a given category, but not enough to matter (all by less than any material strength margin).
http://248shooter.com/index.php/billet-vs-forged-for-an-ar-15-lower/
Hardtarget
Member
As long as the holes and milled areas line up and you can place the parts in correctly...how can we...should we, worry about it?
I feel I paid too much for the stripped lower when I bought. I really didn't know any better. Just too new to the AR thought process at the time. My gun shoots pretty good, so its all water under the bridge.
But, I don't know the answer to your question.
Mark
I feel I paid too much for the stripped lower when I bought. I really didn't know any better. Just too new to the AR thought process at the time. My gun shoots pretty good, so its all water under the bridge.
But, I don't know the answer to your question.
Mark
I paid $125 for my 1st forged lower in '08 just as the panic was starting. Ever since, I haven't paid more than $50. Lately I like Anderson, got a few at $39.95 and they can be had for $34.95 on occasion. The one I assembled so far works great.
1911 guy
Member
I think that's the beauty of the AR design. Upper and lower receiver forgins bear almost no stress, that is contained by the barrel, barrel extension and bolt.
As long as a receiver is made to the correct dimensions and the machining is clean, brand doesn't matter, unless it's a personal preference thing.
They make them out of plastic, for crying out loud. I wonder about the durability of plastic receivers because of pins and bolt carriers sliding through them, but anything made of anodized aluminum is plenty strong.
As long as a receiver is made to the correct dimensions and the machining is clean, brand doesn't matter, unless it's a personal preference thing.
They make them out of plastic, for crying out loud. I wonder about the durability of plastic receivers because of pins and bolt carriers sliding through them, but anything made of anodized aluminum is plenty strong.
LiveLife
Member
But can your uppers tell the difference?
My uppers don't seem to notice the difference whether they are shot with Bushmaster, Spike's Tactical or Anderson lowers.
My uppers don't seem to notice the difference whether they are shot with Bushmaster, Spike's Tactical or Anderson lowers.
TheRealJQP
Member
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The two things I look for in a lower are "low shelf," and a threaded takedown detent hole (or whatever it's called; the one that is covered by the end plate and castle nut. Well, three things, I like "blemised," too. That's why I stick with Aero Precision lowers, though I'd be happy to hear about other lowers in the same price range that meet all three of those requirements.
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