Can ruger 45LC be loaded to .44M +p+ levels?

[CraigC]

Is there really any market for 'rare' Rugers?

Ever been to Ruger Forum???


Yes, Bowen did say (and wrote in his book) that no matter what he does to a Ruger, it will never be as precise as an FA. However, if you scroll through history and look at all the wonderful custom guns that have been built, some costing up to $15,000, they are not built on FA's. The vast majority are built on Rugers and Colt's, with some high end USFA's here and there. Try not to take Bowen's statements out of context.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

There are a lot of people experimenting, attempting to determine the exact pressure level it takes to blow the top straps off a Ruger revolver.

I consider these people too dangerous to be around.

As a general rule, I would follow loading manuals and factory recommendations.

+100

I've shot some pretty stout stuff through my .45 Colt Blackhawk, but there was load data for all of it. It may have been in the "Ruger Only" section of the manual, but I don't go experimenting and trying to see how far I can push things. I don't shoot a lot of the super heavy stuff anymore anyway. It just wasn't fun. Now the most powerful I go is a good stout load of 2400 and a 255 grain SWC. Nothing off the charts but still plenty of thump.

 

[TennJed]

if you want a 44mag get a 44 mag, dont try to make a 45 colt into one

I understand your point, but why not take advantage of safely loading the 45colt however you want.

I have a 45colt blackhawk with a 45acp cylinder. Not going to find any 44 mag guns that can shoot 45acp.

With my blackhawk i can shoot 45acp, cowboy 45colt, and heavy 45colt loads. All that in one gun. Pretty interesting concept to me. A single action revolver is all about fun, and the versaltility of the 45 colt in a Ruger is wonderful. I can stick to safe published data and have more options that any 44mag could give me

 

[MCgunner]

"No matter what I do to the Ruger, at the end of the day, it's still a Ruger."

While I'd never trade an FA for a Blackhawk, I don't really consider "it's still a Ruger" a bad thing. But, then, I don't load to astronomical pressures, either.

 

[rcmodel]

This whole thread mystifies me to no end.

The .45 Colt was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1873 to shoot horses out from under charging riders.

That was using a 255 grain lead RN bullet at about 900 FPS.

Have 250 pound deer got tougher then those old 1,200 pound war horses in the last 139 years??

I would put a .255 SWC at 1,000 FPS up against anything that poops in the woods in the USA and it will shoot through it. And it will be DRT within walking distance.

And I can assure I, or you, can shoot it straighter without flinching, without ear protection, and put it where it needs to go more accurately then all the mega-Magnum .45 Colt loads everyone thinks they need to kill something now.

Try it and see.
I did.

rc

 

[USSR]

Yeah, rc, got to agree with you. Must be them critters are wearing kevlar. I took a really nice big doe last year with my .45 Colt slinging 265gr SWC HP's at a little over 1,000fps. Of course, if I could have only upped the velocity by a couple hundred fps, instead of dead, that deer would have been really, really dead.

Don

 

[CraigC]

Added velocity doesn't kill anything any deader but it does help flatten trajectory.

 

[kludge]

^yup^ it's for a bit better trajectory, no other reason.

OK, well there is the element of fun.

 

[98Redline]

These 44Mag, 45LC threads get hashed over and over ad nauseam. I would say they are second only to the what is adequate for bear protection threads.

IMHO the two cartridges are so close together ballistically that you could flip a coin and come up with a winner, heads or tails. Yes the 45LC runs at a lower pressure and yes it does have a larger diameter and yes the 44mag will run at a higher velocity and yes it does have a better sectional density, yada....yada....yada.....splitting hairs is all you are doing.

With respect to the OPs particular dilemma, while a 45LC Bisley Hunter is certainly a nice gun with a fairly collectible nature, he already has a 44Mag Bisley Hunter. Those two guns are so close together performance wise that I really don't see the value. There is nothing you can do with one that the other will not do equally as well.

The FA 454 is a different story, however that caliber with a 4.75" barrel seems like a colossal waste to me. The short barrel and fixed sights, as the OP mentioned is really not that great of a hunting gun. Under field conditions, it is a 25 yard gun at best and anything that I need the power of a 454 to take down, I certainly don't want to be inside 25 yards of.

To me, the smart play would be to sell the short barreled FA, add some extra cash and buy one with a longer tube (6.5 or 7.5"). Out of a 7.5" barrel the 454 starts to really develop on it's potential and truly puts you into a class above either the 44Mag or 45LC. Better yet, look for one in 475L.

 

[bigboredad]

I may be way off on this but I am getting the op would like to get rid of his FA if that is what he wants than I think he should go for the deal. who can't use a cool gun and a bundle of cash.
I personally love the .45 and especially out of a Ruger. I have shot a .340gr cast at 900fps and all the way up to 1400fps accurately and the penetration is totally amazing and even more at 900 because the bullet will stabalize and still penetrate like crazy. At 1400 I really didn't enjoy it too much. So imho 1400+ while cool are just not needed unless your range s pretty close to way out there.
The .44mag is a great round and I shot one exclusively for over 10 years. For those ten years I shot nuthin but hot loads I didn't even know they any powder other than h110. But the first time i shot a .45 colt my love afair with the .44mag was over and now all I own is .45 Rugers. Now a Ruger is just a Ruger and a .44mag is just a .44 mag and a .45 colt is just a .45colt and the .454 in a FA is cool but is it always fun to go that fast? for me I'd never trade a .45Ruger for a FA but a FA That would make me think so now you are no better off than when I started have a good day

 

[Prosser]

I posted this picture for a reason:

LOOK AT THE TOP GUN. WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT IS

I suspect it is pretty much the rarest of Rugers. Still nobody would pay 3500 dollars for it.

And I'm not taking anything out of context.

rcmodel:
I gather you don't think the extra 100 fps or 200 fps from 1000 to 1200 is worth the extra recoil and blast? Using 4227 or H110?

mikechandler:

If you want to go up in power, go up in caliber. I've got a factory 7.5" .475 FA 83 barrel. Make me an offer. Either JRH or a number of other smiths can install it, and a larger cylinder. I think, IIRC, they actually bore the .454 out
to .475. The conversion is relatively cheap in the world of premier gunsmith conversions. You end up with a FA, in a fantastic caliber, and you'd have a factory FA barrel.

Since I have a .475 FA, this barrel came off one that was converted to .500JRH, for a bit of variety, and a bigger bullet.

 

[RalphS]

RC makes a lot of sense but these discussions tend to be based on how to stop an 800 -1000 lb griz charging you at 35mph, and the reality is that, for most of us in that situation, a handgun isn't going to be enough.

But there are cases where the super duper magnum handgun does the job, Greg Brush being the one that comes to mind where he used a 454 Alaskan to stop a griz charge in Alaska.

 

[98Redline]

I personally love the .45 and especially out of a Ruger. I have shot a .340gr cast at 900fps and all the way up to 1400fps accurately and the penetration is totally amazing and even more at 900 because the bullet will stabalize and still penetrate like crazy. At 1400 I really didn't enjoy it too much. So imho 1400+ while cool are just not needed unless your range s pretty close to way out there.

No offense but where are you getting load data for a 340gr bullet out of a 45 colt at 1400fps?
That load is way........way over max pressure, even considering Ruger only loads.

You could definately get that from a .454 Casull but not from a 45colt....at least not safely.

 

[Prosser]

As RC has noted, custom rugers are VERY strong, and it's primarily the cylinder being put in, usually a 5 shot, that is designed to take those kinds of loads.

Linebaugh used 17-4 stainless for the cylinder on my Seville, as does FA for it's guns.
Proof is about 90 PSI before they blow.

Seyfried just kept putting H110 into a colt cylinder, in a six shot, like my old gun, until he got the velocity he wanted, or maxed at.

Back then used to load a full case of H110 under a 230 grain super hard cast bullet for plinking. 33 grains or so?

IIRC, and this is strictly a limited use at your own risk load, over 24 grains of H110, WAY over 24 grains.

Rugers are so strong it takes prolonged use of extra heavy loads to really stretch the frames. A custom can take .454 level loads, and, since the cylinder is longer, the OAL is longer, so you can use heavier bullets, with more velocity then the .454.

I could be wrong on that. It might have been in the day that the longer heavier bullets were designed for the .45 Colt, and finding a .454 bullet
that heavy was the problem. Not sure on that.

I do remember both Linebaugh and Seyfried saying they liked the .45 Colt
because it did better with heavier bullets.

Keep in mind Linebaugh lived in the sticks, and used a 25-5, IIRC, for about 100% of his food hunting. Around 250 grain bullets, cast, at 1200 fps, IIRC. As others have said: dead deers.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Keep in mind Linebaugh lived in the sticks, and used a Colt 25-5, IIRC, for about 100% of his food hunting.

 

[Prosser]

My bad. S&@ mountain gun.
Here's some load information designed for MY gun.

 

[bigboredad]

No offense but where are you getting load data for a 340gr bullet out of a 45 colt at 1400fps?
That load is way........way over max pressure, even considering Ruger only loads.

You could definately get that from a .454 Casull but not from a 45colt....at least not safely.

98redline

I know its over max and I that the bullet does not seat near as deep as commercial bullets. there is a reason I didn't post the load data. I did not just start pouring powder in and this sin't my first rodeo. But thanks for your concern and for letting others this a hot hot load but safe in MY gun

 

[MCgunner]

I loaded my hot load (300 XTP at 1120 fps) for hogs. I don't go out and stick hogs with knives anymore, but I wasn't real confident in my .357 or .45ACP when I was doing that, justified the .45 Colt (I wanted it anyway, but I used to have to justify purchases) for a take along on these stabbing trips JUST IN CASE. I was danger close and wanted DRT if possible, but I didn't want a .44 mag. I had the hots for the Colt round at the time and I've ALWAYS handloaded, well, since the age of 10, anyway. Grandpa taught me.

I have shot few and loaded few of that load over the years. My .357 is plenty for deer, have shoot a few with it. Don't need a caliber that starts with a 4 for Texas whitetail, really even for hogs unless I'm danger close. Well, it made me a little more brave, gave me a little more reassurance, anyway. I don't chase hogs anymore, but I love that .45 Colt because it's so bloomin' accurate if nothing else. It's very easy to load and cast for.

 

[mikechandler]

Well, first off, I want to thank everybody that so thoughtfully replied, this is some of the most useful information I've gleaned just on the difference in hot loads between these two guns. And great advice too... Thank you all so much! Could I do it all over again, I would have bought into the .45 colt over the .44 magnum. FWIW - I dismissed the 45 colt as a CAS cartridge. I know better now (or am learning better). But the .44 has been easy to load for with so much information, so no regrets...

I am in a quandry for sure.

I didn't order that FA in 4.75", The FA fell into my hands on my family vacation. I was in a small mountain town area just a couple months after a collector with good taste (in revolvers) had passed on. His wife parted out a large number of the guns, and I acquired a few of the pieces at firesale pricing.

But even having very little into the FA, I have been apprehensive about modifying a gun that's unlikely to have been fired outside of the factory. It's an original 80's gun, in its original wood grain box, looking all the world like NOS.

And I think it is both gorgeous and senseless. Why make such a precision manufactured gun with fixed sights and a short barrel? What was the purpose of this gun, anyway? It's ridiculously overbuilt for a bear gun, it's ill equipped for a hunting gun, it's too big, powerful, and low capacity for a defense gun.. it lacks a real puprose IMHO. Other than to look exquisite.

I am not sure what to do yet, either sell, trade, or modify.

 

[Prosser]

And I think it is both gorgeous and senseless. Why make such a precision manufactured gun with fixed sights and a short barrel? What was the purpose of this gun, anyway? It's ridiculously overbuilt for a bear gun, it's ill equipped for a hunting gun, it's too big, powerful, and low capacity for a defense gun.. it lacks a real puprose IMHO. Other than to look exquisite.

If that's how you feel, I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it.

 

[LeonCarr]

Keep the FA.

Save up and buy a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt to blow up with crazy handloads. The .44 Magnum will take anything on this planet with normal handloads and heavyweight hardcast bullets.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[mikechandler]

If that's how you feel, I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it.

I purchased the freedom arms m83 along with a 586-1, also looking very mint, for $1,400, from one of the stores that purchased lots from the widow. At least that's how I heard it all from a shop down the street later on, that had a couple other guns I purchased, also on the cheap. So by my guess I am in the gun all of $900.

But I am not sure about selling the m83.

I was pretty certain it was priced wrong, but since they were a gun shop/pawn shop I figured it was their business to know what an item was worth, not mine to educate them. Had I ever met the lady that sold these guns, of course, I would have told her not to sell them locally to those idiots. Oh well.

Here's the FA in question:

 

[Prosser]

You have what is pretty much the perfect packing pistol. It's a powerful, close range gun that is easy to carry. With heavy bullets it's a great protection gun in the wild, and with lighter bullets does double duty as a carry gun for 2 legged predators. That may not work for you as a hunting gun, but some of us find that combination just fine.

If it doesn't fit a category for you, sell it on gunbroker.com

I have picked up a few similar FA 83's in my area for the same you have in that gun. Three actually. All in similar or better condition. I have found the going price for .454's depends on condition and market timing. They can go anywhere from 900 to 2000 dollars. I mainly look at them as a starting point for larger caliber conversions, though at this point, I wouldn't mind just having one in .454-45 Colt.

P

 

[mavracer]

Why make such a precision manufactured gun with fixed sights and a short barrel?

Because some people are willing to put the time in to tayler a load and tune the combination to take advantage of the ruggedness of a fixed sight set up. Less worry about sights shifting if they don't move. Also there's no reason a person can't learn to shoot a 4 5/8" gun well past 25yards. I've got a Sheriff's model Vaquero in 44sp. I got the load where I liked filed the sight to match and have no problem ringing a 10" plate at 100 yards.

 

[Prosser]

Give Bob Munden a 1.5 inch snub, or Ross Seyfried, and they are going to hit a 12" plate at 100 yards. Lee Jurras will shoot under 1" at 100 yards with a custom .475.

My FA's, in the right hands, will put all five shots in a cloverleaf at 50 yards.
MY 83 252 at 50 yards, shot 3/8" with matchgrade ammo.