Cane for self defense? Please explain......

[AOK]

Just out of curiosity why do people recommend canes so much on this site as a self defense tool outside of he fact it can get past security (or other legal reasons)? If somebody comes at me with a cane they won't keep their distance with it, I would close the gap my first opportunity, wrap up one or two of your arms, or redirect the cane (depending on how they are trying to use it) then beat the living snot out of them. If someone is willing to spend money to go get training on using something like that as a weapon they may as well use the money toward some defensive firearm or edged weapon classes if they can legally carry a gun or knife.

I'm not trying to insult anybody's recommendations, just trying to get an understanding of what the thinking is since I have had zero training on how to effectively use a cane as a defensive weapon. The only bat/cane training I have had is through KM and defending against it. IMHO it is MUCH easier to defend against that compared to a gun or knife.

 

[orangeninja]

Attacking a guy with a cane is like attacking someone holding a baseball bat. It's all kung-fu and speculation until the big guy starts a-swinging.

 

[Kingcreek]

Better than bare hands and not banned anywhere. Personally, I prefer a walking stick to a cane.

 

[Carl Levitian]

People like canes/walking sticks for the simple reason, if you can't have a gun, a stick is the next best thing for a couple reasons. One, blunt force truma stops a fight waay faster than a knife. A knife is maybe the worst weapon to use for defense. It takes a lot of stab wounds to put a fighter down, there's just no shock. Looking at some of the people who have been stabbed, it took a lot. In the infamous Tate/Manson killings, it took 51 stab wounds to put Wojciech Frykowski down as he tried to fight his way out of the Tate house. At least three people had to take Frykowski down using Buck 110's. He was finally shot a couple times with the .22 revolver carried by Tex Watson. Frykowski's girl friend, coffee heiress Abiagail Folger also took two people and a couple dozen stab wounds to put down. Knives are lousy for defense.

A stick can be carried anywhere at all that you go. It's a totally under the radar defense weapon that gives you range over a knife or fists. It can block an incoming blade, or just break the bones in the hand holding your attackers weapon. The blunt force truma inflicted by a stick will have much more immediate results than a cut or stab wound. There is a reason police issue a stick. A stick gives options a knife does not.

A stick can be made almost anywhere, out of anything. When I was in the army, we had a little course in improvised weapons in case one became a POW. The stick was the top choice. A towel rack pulled off a wall, rung kicked out of a wooden chair, a tree branch, mop handle, broken off piece of broom stick, almost anything that can be thrust or swung.

Sticks are great to deal with aggressive dogs. I don't believe you'd want to close to knife range with a vicious rot or pit bull. ut a nice sturdy stick will brain the attacking dog with no problem. Few years back a off leash pit bull attacker our welsh corgi. One good slam on the pits head and it was over. I don't think I'd have wanted to deal with the pit bull with a knife. No way.

Knives are just way to limited for me to use as a weapon, unless I'm going to die if I don't, and it's the only thing I have.

Carl.

 

[AOK]

Personally, I prefer a walking stick to a cane.

May I ask the difference between the two?

 

[Carl Levitian]

"I have had zero training on how to effectively use a cane as a defensive weapon. The only bat/cane training I have had is through KM and defending against it. IMHO it is MUCH easier to defend against that compared to a gun or knife."

That is why you don't see it. You have not had the benefit of the training, so you don't know the wonderful possibilities on hand with a nice piece of wood. I'm very prejudiced to the stick because the army taught me well on pugil stick techniques as well as the law enforcement training facility I was put through trained me in stick use as well.

Go take some training, and you will see a whole new world of possibilities open to you with just a bit of wood.

Carl.

 

[Sam1911]

You hit the second-biggest plus right off: it is actually illegal to deny you entry with a cane to almost anywhere, or even to question you about it.

The biggest plus is as others have stated: More of a distance weapon and far more of a compelling force multiplier than a blade. Blades are scary and lethal, and make serious offensive weapons, but they aren't all that great for defense. You have to be too close and the wounds are often not immediately even realized, painful, distracting, and attack-stopping even though they may indeed prove mortal within minutes.

...I would close the gap my first opportunity...

... and if they have any idea what they're doing, that's going to be your last opportunity.

There are some members here with some pretty intense training with both blades and sticks. Given the choice, they'll take a stick.

 

[orangeninja]

As someone who has actually been hit with a bat, a 2x4, a fence board (the cheapie planks) and a baton I can say without hesitation, getting hit with anything of the sort sucks...and nothing lingers like bruised ribs.

Also the difference between a cane and a walking stick is walking sticks tend to be thicker, heavier and have more mass.

 

[glistam]

May I ask the difference between the two?

It's just terms. "Walking Stick" "Cane" and "Staff" mean different things depending where your from. I think "Walking Stick" in UK English covers all sticks big and small. In the US "cane" is the short ones.

But I think the intended distinction is a longer "staff" vs a cane.

 

[Clipper]

A cane has a handle or bent top. A walking stick has a knob, and a staff is a longer pole, sorta like a cue stick. Mine are wood walking sticks, steel cored, with stainless tips and top collars with cue ball knobs, and weigh 25-30 ounces.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Walking sticks were very popular in Victorian England and were usually made from imported rattan which is a species of cane. Calling a walking stick a cane is sort of like calling an empty pistol cases "brass" because that is the usual material.

 

[dprice3844444]

cold steel makes some nice ones,swords in them too.then there is cane guns and suppressed cane guns,which go unter nfa any other weapons

 

[Sam1911]

swords in them too

Just to point out the obvious, but this completely kills off the primary benefit of the cane -- sword canes CANNOT be carried just anywhere, and quite often can't even be carried in places/states/jurisdictions where you may be able to carry a GUN.

And...it's probably not a great idea to use a sword cane as a blunt striking implement, either, unless it is designed to handle that use.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"Walking sticks were very popular in Victorian England and were usually made from imported rattan which is a species of cane. Calling a walking stick a cane is sort of like calling an empty pistol cases "brass" because that is the usual material."

During that time period, schools were set up in London and Paris for fashionable gentlemen to learn how to use that walking stick with great effect for defense. It was then that the ends of a stick became as dangerous as the main body. Often the walking sticks of the day were very slim elegantly finished sticks of ebony with silver or even gold handles. But down at the bottom, was a slim iron fitting that was almost as good as a spear when used with a good thrust to stomach or throat. Two handed techniques of the era involved using the stick as a short spear. You could run into some very unsavory people on an evening out in those days.

Carl.

 

[Owen Sparks]

AOK,


To answer your question, the difference between a trained stick fighter and the average person is that the average person will swing a cane like a baseball bat with no thought to recovery while a trained fighter will "redondo" or use the inertia of the stick in a circular motion to cycle it back through one of the basic cocked positions and into another strike. A trained fighter will also be much more aware of maintaining proper distance and will simply side step and circle like a boxer if an opponent charges.

In the Tansu method we teach close quarters stick fighting using both hands. You hold the stick in a “bench press grip” only at a 45 degree angle with the front hand high. This will leave about 6 inches of cane protruding from each hand. This is what you hit with. Your front forearm and the stick form a triangle structure like this:
^
this becomes your guard or shield against incoming punches. From this position you can strike with either hand in a motion similar to paddling a kayak with hooks and uppercuts. You can also strike with the middle of the cane or easily transition into a linear thrusting motion with either end. The instant that you recover your distance you can go right back to conventional swings with either hand as your grip is already established about 6" from either end.

This is why I am so adamant about canes being balanced in the center. It allows you to use it with either hand on either end without a dramatic change in the way the cane balances or handles. This is also why I like a minimal ball handle because it is still suitable for thrusting and crooks are not.

I recently taught a seminar on stick and cane fighting. We used boffers for practice (foam swimming pool noodles with a piece of PVC in the center) I started by inviting several perticipants to try and "stab" me with a big rubber training knife. I proved beyond a doubt that a knife is no match for a trained man with a stick.

 

[Tommy83]

Just found this forum. Its going to be a fun place to hang out!

I actually have some chinese martial arts training on the "stick". We called it a "baton". As has been said, its semantics. Anything can be used - a broken branch to a long maglite.

In the hands of someone trained to use it, it can be devastating! If the attacker gets close the blows that can be landed range from crippling to lethal. We always called it an equalizer. (Which can be said of most weapons). Put a baton in the hands of a small man or woman, train for a few years, and no unarmed man will stand a fighting chance, all other things being equal. Of course competence and strength are assumed.

Watch the cold steel city stick videos on Youtube and then imagine that thing in the hands of someone who knows a thing or two about combat against another human. Ouch!

 

[Kingcreek]

Maybe mine should more accurately be staffs. I like them to top about 2" higher than the crease of the elbow. strong and balanced, black locust or osage orange wood. I've carried mine in downtown Chicago, on trains and planes and into federal buildings, courthouses, etc.

 

[Tommy83]

Maybe mine should more accurately be staffs. I like them to top about 2" higher than the crease of the elbow. strong and balanced, black locust or osage orange wood. I've carried mine in downtown Chicago, on trains and planes and into federal buildings, courthouses, etc.

Nobody ever gave you grief? That's cool.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Sam1911]

Nobody ever gave you grief? That's cool.

The Americans with Disibilities Act helps keep you from getting hassled:

...in the US we have some pretty rock-solid bits of federal legislation protecting our right to carry a cane.
The Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 (http://www.ada.gov/) protects your right to assistive devices, and combined with provisions of the Privacy Act of 1974, means any person asking for "proof" of a disability can cram it, even if they're law enforcement, state or federal.

 

[Owen Sparks]

In the opening post AOK said:

I have had zero training on how to effectively use a cane as a defensive weapon.

No offense intended, but you represent the vast majority of people who not only don't know how effective a cane is as a weapon, they don't know that they don't know. They are oblivious to its potential as a weapon and therefore do not notice. I recently posted about carrying my 3' Osage Orange stick through the metal detector and past two security guards at the local emergency room and no body noticed yet these same guards made my brother surrender a one inch pen knife on his key ring.

I feel more confident with a heavy stick than with any other weapon except a firearm.

 

[hso]

AOK,

Unless you're a very advanced student your training in Krav Maga probably hasn't been against someone trained in how to use a stick defensively. I have spent some time training with and against knife and stick/stave/cane as well as a few other defensive tools/schools and stick/cane will trump much of what others can bring to the fight except greater training and skill. A knife, like a firearm, isn't always a practical option while a stick/cane always can be. What would you rather have, nothing or something?

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I look at it this way: You will not be employing KM when you're over 60 and your bones are becoming brittle.
Get good with a cane now, and you'll master something that will serve you til the day you die the death of an old man, middle aged man, or young man.

Young men frequently break bones in their hands punching and striking. Using a cane mitigates personal injury and multiplies the force you can bring to the table. It doesn't make you Pei Mei, but it's better than trying to put up your porous boned dukes at age 80.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I've been fortunate to have studied arnis (also called escrima). It's a form of stick fighting. A cane can readily be adapted for this (as well a flute made of a stong material such as lexan). I'm sure youtube has some videos. There are other martial art weapons (bo, jo, tonfas, sais, etc) that could have some of their techniques translate to using a cane. It's better than bare hands. Of course, you need to train to develop some level of proficiency.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"I look at it this way: You will not be employing KM when you're over 60 and your bones are becoming brittle.
Get good with a cane now, and you'll master something that will serve you til the day you die the death of an old man, middle aged man, or young man.

Young men frequently break bones in their hands punching and striking. Using a cane mitigates personal injury and multiplies the force you can bring to the table. It doesn't make you Pei Mei, but it's better than trying to put up your porous boned dukes at age 80."
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Ding, ding, ding...

We have a winner! Great point made by wheelgunslinger. I can tell you from a senior citizen standpoint, that time is the greatest threat to you in the long run. After 60 it gets harder and harder to do what ytou used to do, then in time you won't be able to. I cringe at the thought of hitting somebody with my arthritic fists. Every morning I get my coffee and first dose of Ibuprophen. That's just to get going!

I figure by the time that hair on your head gets gray, (if it's there at all) you're gonna need a way to cheat. Nothing like starting with a cane right in your hand when some young punk tries you, and you just swing it strait up between his legs and strongly affect his family jewels. Think of it as a dirty first strike cheat by the white hairded old guy.

Carl.

 

[AOK]

Thanks to everyone for the explanations. I'm always looking for new areas to train in and this sounds very intriguing. I'm wondering if you need to be into some form of martial art school before you can get into any form of stick defense or do classes and schools exist focusing on this form of defense?