"Carry" Caliber Wars???

[Mosin77]

Another factor that I've only recently become aware of is the potential for permanent hearing damage if you fire a magnum handgun with no hearing protection, particularly indoors. That factor, combined with the Ellifritz study, seems to militate in favor of the .380, seems to me.

It would certainly suggest that .38sp, .380, or .45, and perhaps subsonic 147gr 9mm, would be the best choices of those calibers, if permanent hearing damage was a concern. I wish there were some thorough and comprehensive decibel tests with good equipment, of different common carry guns, calibers, and ammunition.

 

[md7]

I like the scalability of a Glock 26. Ankle carry? Go with a 10 rounder. Aiwb? 12 rounder plus a 15/17 rounder in sidecar for a reload. Dress clothes? My AIWB holster is tuckable.

With a 12 round mag, I tend to view the G26 as a bobtail G19. That it accepts G17/19 mags is a bonus.

I shoot it well, modern 9mm ammo puts me at no real disadvantage, it’s scalable, effective, and I practice with it. A lot.

 

[Pat Riot]

Rule #2: Double Tap (Zombieland)

I have practiced with all my guns from .380 through .45 Colt excluding .40 S&W. I never really cared for that round. I no longer own a .45 ACP and have no desires to own one except for the fact I want a .45 revolver that shoots both .45 Colt & .45 ACP.

My favorite carry guns are .38 Special and 9mm. That is what works for me. I can quickly and accurately “double tap” that ammo in my guns. Quick and accurate follow up shots are important to me, but more importantly, accurate first shots with a gun and a round I am comfortable with.

 

[FL-NC]

I carry the shield 9 because it works and I got it cheap.

 

[cslinger]

Another factor that I've only recently become aware of is the potential for permanent hearing damage if you fire a magnum handgun with no hearing protection, particularly indoors. That factor, combined with the Ellifritz study, seems to militate in favor of the .380, seems to me.

ANY round fired, especially indoors, has enough DB’s to cause some amount of permanent hearing damage.

I do think there is value in lower pressure rounds, however, somewhat because of their lower DB level but more so because you are more likely to not impair yourself or others near you with the blast and concussion of the higher pressure rounds. A hot .357 magnum can clear your Sinus cavities in an enclosed space.

Beyond that I say go big or go home. A nice snub nosed .500 or .460 magnum. Might as well get the added benefits of flame thrower and flash bang with each shot.

Seriously though. Shoot what YOU are comfortable and confident with out of a reliable platform with reliable ammo. Don’t get hung up on caliber or “wunderbullet” du jour. If you FEEL more confident with a bigger caliber have at it. If you feel 9mm is the best mix of attributes rock on. If all you have is a .22 then by God let a few fly.

The point is ALL the martial calibers in modern defensive loadings are within the statistical noise of each other. Do they all have pros and cons vs each other? Sure they do but not drastically enough to matter one way or another.

.........then again a .45/70 BFR would probably leave a mark but I digress.

 

[Anchorite]

There is no perfect solution/scenario. Everything is a trade off/compromise. I will add that for me, COVID has changed the dynamic in that I don’t leave the hacienda much anymore and go out in public .... therefore a J frame in the pocket of my shorts when I get out of bed until I retire for the evening is now SOP. If I do leave the hacienda perimeter, it’s more often than not a G19. Can’t get too lost in “ballistic hypotheticals,” as one member stated....and that’s a good summation. Most all calibers work, assuming it’s put in the right spot. Again, everything is a compromise or trade off. Soon as you realize that, then it becomes easier to outfit. JMO.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I feel that accuracy is much more important than caliber and I feel accuracy needs to be tested with raised adrenaline and heart rate to help simulate what would happen if you needed your carry piece.
I personally carry a 45 shield with an extra mag and always have a full size 40 or 45 as a truck gun close by.

 

[Kleanbore]

I do think there is value in lower pressure rounds, however, somewhat because of their lower DB level but more so because you are more likely to not impair yourself or others near you with the blast and concussion of the higher pressure rounds

DB level, in this context, is a measure of sound pressure., and sound pressure and concussion are one and the same.

 

[JR24]

Oh goody, another caliber discussion!

Nobody is forcing you to participate, or even read this thread.

I like the scalability of a Glock 26. Ankle carry? Go with a 10 rounder. Aiwb? 12 rounder plus a 15/17 rounder in sidecar for a reload. Dress clothes? My AIWB holster is tuckable.

With a 12 round mag, I tend to view the G26 as a bobtail G19. That it accepts G17/19 mags is a bonus.

I shoot it well, modern 9mm ammo puts me at no real disadvantage, it’s scalable, effective, and I practice with it. A lot.

Well said, I feel much the same. Unfortunately the 26 with beaver tail exacerbates the issue I with my hand shape/size and the "hump" on the grip. Eventually after a number of rounds the hump really starts to wear on my palm and is a bit uncomfortable. I need the beaver tail if I don't want to be bleeding after ten rounds.

Fortunately I can conceal a 19 quite easily, so I eventually moved on from the 26, despite it's wonderful versatility.

 

[bassjam]

After spending years pouring over what data there is, as well as the plethora of internet opinions, I've come to the conclusion that you have 3 carry options: A rifle, shotgun, or a handgun, but don't expect that handgun cartridge to perform like a rifle or a slug. In other words, most of the common handgun cartridges have very similar performance and there's a pretty large gap between them and even the .223. So arguing between a .45ACP, .40S&W, 9mm, .38sp, or .357 mag is mostly a pointless exercise akin to arguing over Coke, Pepsi, or RC Cola.

I sometimes carry a LCP because I can't find a 9mm pocket gun small enough that doesn't become a chinese finger trap when I try to quickly pull it out of my pocket. Normally though I carry a 3" Kimber K6s AIWB. I shoot it well and I like the added safety of a long double action trigger pull, especially when it's pointed between my legs as I've found AIWB carry to be by far the most comfortable for me (pocket carry aside). I've carried various 9mm's in that position and I never can get over the fact that there's a striker or hammer down there with some amount of energy being stored.

 

[Craig_AR]

John Correia gave a nice 12 minute presentation on the topic a few years ago;
What’s The Best Caliber to Carry? (ASP BITS) | Active Self Protection Extra
Short summary: there are a number of decent options with reasonable effectiveness.
You get to choose what works for you.

 

[Speedo66]

So I had my .45 acp Shield and a Beretta model 85F (.380) on my desk at the same time. I wasn't quite amazed the Shield was a bit thinner and way lighter, but it was probably the first time I wondered why I'd ever consider carrying the Beretta for self-defense?

In your instance, with the size and weight of the Beretta, it makes sense vs. the Shield.

But as there are much smaller and lighter .380's, that would be my choice. Since I no longer have to carry a service gun anymore, if I'm going to carry, it's going to be the smallest and lightest in a suitable caliber.

While I still have my Glock 26, for everyday carry I'll go with a LCP. Minimal caliber, but it's that or not carrying at all because I know I won't carry anything heavier except if I feel I'm going to a "rough" neighborhood or there is civil unrest.

 

[CraigC]

I love my Beretta 84 but it's old tech. Modern carry guns pack a more potent cartridge into a more compact package. That said, I carry a Ruger LC9 more than anything. Much more than my XDS45. As compact as the XDS is, or a 1911 Officer's for that matter, the LC9 is even moreso. The 9mm is "enough".

Problem with "caliber wars" is that everything is a compromise of sorts. The issues that arise are because some folks cannot or will not accept that they are making compromises in one way or another. To 'some', their choice is everything and everyone else's is less.

 

[NMexJim]

So, what happened to the .357 Sig? I knew a couple of cops that swore by it, but that round doesn't get much mention these days.

 

[Kleanbore]

So, what happened to the .357 Sig? I knew a couple of cops that swore by it, but that round doesn't get much mention these days.

Most agencies who used it have switched or are switching to 9MM

 

[md7]

Nobody is forcing you to participate, or even read this thread.



Well said, I feel much the same. Unfortunately the 26 with beaver tail exacerbates the issue I with my hand shape/size and the "hump" on the grip. Eventually after a number of rounds the hump really starts to wear on my palm and is a bit uncomfortable. I need the beaver tail if I don't want to be bleeding after ten rounds.

Fortunately I can conceal a 19 quite easily, so I eventually moved on from the 26, despite it's wonderful versatility.

The 19 is a great option also! I love mine and they are used for home defense, range, and sometimes concealed too.

 

[CDW4ME]

Oh goody, another caliber discussion!

It'll go something like this:

or

 

[NMexJim]

Most agencies who used it have switched or are switching to 9MM

So a 150 grain 357 Sig premium hp has 1210 fps with 480 lbf w/ 15" penetration ballistic gell.
a 147 grain 9mm premium hp has 900 fps with 430 lbf w/ 15.9" penetration ballistic gell.

Sure, I understand why they would change.

 

[Rexster]

“Lightweight” pistols, and “compact” pistols, that fire duty-level cartridges, are no longer my friends. I envy those of you who can still shoot a Glock G19. As few as eighty rounds, through a G19, will puff-up and discolor my right thumb, hand, and wrist. That is real damage. This happened in October 2017, an unwelcome 56th birthday gift. Thankfully, a G17, with its full-length grip, remains shoot-able, at least in reasonable quantities. The same remains true with all-steel, full-sized 1911 pistols, even in .45 ACP. (I swore-off compact 1911 pistols, some number of years ago, for reliability reasons, so cannot test how small I could go, with .45 ACP 1911 pistols.)

I am still willing to dress around duty-sized handguns, as much as practicable, which is most of the time. Dressing around my N-Frame duty six-guns, in the Eighties, has made concealing everything else easy.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I carry what I carry because I'm lazy, if I'm going to be honest. I don't have time or the inclination to strap a holster to my belt and get it adjusted properly every time I go out of the house. Instead I throw a Keltec P3AT in a pocket holster into my front pocket and away I go. Spare mag just stays in my opposite front pocket in case I need it. It's easy, convenient and I shoot the Keltec well. I'm not really hung up on the caliber war discussions. I'm fairly confident that if I do my job, the .380 will do it's job.

 

[Rex in OTZ]

I like reading about historic firearms.
The edwardian era firearms the caliber size for military side arms ran in the 11mm (.42 caliber) weapons were popular during this period by many of the world’s combatants.
The pre WW1 era British the .455 cal.

And the very British .577 Revolvers.




Ive read of some British cap and ball revolvers up to .60 & .70 cal.

 

[Craig_AR]

What size gun with what caliber cartridge do you like to carry?
What size gun with what caliber cartridge do you want to hurriedly use if you must defend yourself with no warning?

I like to carry my 642 with .38sp in my pocket. Now that I am training and practicing for self defense I like to use my compact double stack 9mm.

 

[Obturation]

I'm a bigger is better type because, well, IT IS.
I think folks should carry the most powerful gun they can control. Concealment us the other side of the coin though. There is no handgun I can shoot better than my 6" gp100 but there's no way I'm carrying that regularly in public. I keep 3 guns to actually carry (one at a time). Small- g42 , medium- g30 , large - g20. All have the same manual of arms and that's important to me.

My g30 gets more carry time than the other 2 by a long shot but the g42 gets used for times I'd otherwise be unarmed. That's the best solution I've come up with.

The pistol one would carry when in an area of greater anticipated threat, one should strive to carry that everywhere.

Agree, it's hard to do though. I bounce back to carrying a full size 10mm for a few months and then back to the mid size for a while. If my smaller gun is still plenty then I think either is ok but if I were headed off to war I'd pick the big pistol of course.

 

[C-grunt]

I carry a Glock 26 mostly because I like more ammo less recoil. If that's too big I have a J frame 38 for the pocket.

I've never finished a gunfight and said "I wish I brought less ammo". To add to that, I've also never said "I wish my gun was harder to shoot".

If you like your 40 and 45, cool. They are good rounds.

 

[CDW4ME]

I carry what I carry because I'm lazy, if I'm going to be honest. I don't have time or the inclination to strap a holster to my belt and get it adjusted properly every time I go out of the house. Instead I throw a Keltec P3AT in a pocket holster into my front pocket and away I go. Spare mag just stays in my opposite front pocket in case I need it. It's easy, convenient and I shoot the Keltec well. I'm not really hung up on the caliber war discussions. I'm fairly confident that if I do my job, the .380 will do it's job.

Although that is the opposite of my philosophy, I gave it a like because its honest.

Most of the time when people are defending smaller calibers its not about the caliber.
Its about the willingness (or lack thereof) to carry something better, either cant or wont dress to conceal something decent.
Cant is limited by work attire, understandable.
Wont is unwilling to carry something decent (bigger than pocket 380) when they could, pocket carry is all they are willing to do.
Rather than just come out and say it as you did they post rationalizations for lesser calibers.
For example, I've even seen someone post that 32 acp FMJ meets FBI performance standards.

If I could eliminate the words "caliber war" from ever being posted again I would; its a caliber discussion. I can only wish.